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Picked This Libertas Americana Medal Out Of A Dealer's Junk Box
EXOJUNKIE
Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
I know there are quite a few variations of this -- from originals to modern restrikes. Can anyone help me identify this one? Junk or treasure? What you see is what it is. Vital statistics are 25.7 grams, 40mm in diameter, and about 3mm thick.
Is there a definitive written reference for these?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
3
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Clearly a copy, but haven't seen anything similar. Is it silver?
Not at all familiar. But, if it was a CC Morgan and looked like that I'd suspect it was made in China. Is this how the real ones look? Curious to know what you got. Good luck,
bob
It isn't marked silver anywhere that I can see, but the toning would lead one to believe it is. It is actually just a bit lighter in hand -- I couldn't get the white balance just right.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I've seen LOTS of these on eBay. They are crude copies, most likely not pure silver, but possibly silver plated. I've seen them sold as cheaply as $1.50 on eBay.
I first saw these in 2007, so enough time for some to become toned (even without help).
There's something hinky in the hair details and the friggin' cap is too small.
Phrygian?
Oh
No doubt a copy but an interesting find in a junk box. The cap has more detail than usual, the expression on Liberty's face is different... Cheers, RickO
Great design ( except for the tiny stiff hat)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
That's a nice find from a junk box for a collector who wants a representative example of the design for not too much money ... but die work is on the crude side to be sure. On the reverse, Lady France is really PO'd at the British lion and Lady Liberty on the obverse looks a bit down trodden, like she just realized that the French Revolution ended up with Napoleon instead of someone like Thomas Jefferson in charge.
I'd say dimestore-looking copy. Genuine pieces are 47mm, so this is also small. I'm not sure what you paid, but it rightly is a dealer's junk box item.
Coin Rarities Online
"Pot metal" imitation. No value except as solder.
I have a question about the grading of Libertas Americana Restrikes. In 2007 I bought 4 Bronze version Paris Mint Restrikes from Talisman for $50 each. I sold 2 to a dealer at a show for $80 each, and sent the other 2 to NGC for grading. They were mint sealed in shrinkwrap and looked perfect. I was hoping for MS70 grades, and they each graded MS64? WTH, they don't have a mark on them!
When a coin does not have a mark on it yet grades from 62 to 64 you can bet it is hairlined.
You would lose that bet. They all looked the same and were mint sealed. Not a single mark means not a single hairline either. Could there be some kind of grade restriction because of a Mint applied finish on this particular issue? Does Cardinal know what the situation is in this case please? Stumped here.
On some antiqued finishes the color is put on the entire coin and than buffed off so it only remains next to the relief.
ANYWAY, I'll stick to "owner oversight" because perfect coins are NOT graded MS-64! If you think your coin is undergraded, return it to NGC and ask for an answer to your question. Good Luck,
I had pre-ordered a group of those medals from Talisman, and like you, I submitted them for grading in their mint-sealed shrink wrap. PCGS gave me grades of 63RB on my bronze medals, and MS61 on the silver medals. In the case of these medals, the problem is not with post-mint hairlines or anything else like that. The grades are based on the poor quality coming directly from the Mint. If you check the Pop reports for the 2009 Ultra High Relief gold coin -- which generally was minted superbly -- you will see some surprisingly low grades. Yes, there are 2009 Ultra High Relief's in grades as low as 62 and 63! They just came from the mint in less than perfect condition.
For the Talisman Libertas Americana medals, the Paris Mint reused 30-year old dies, and really gave little care to the production, as these were to be marketed at a very low price point. The dies imparted very mushy details to the medals, and an odd matte-like surface to the fields. As surprising as it may be, at the grade of MS64, your medals rank high in the Pop Reports!
Now, that illustrates the difference between grading a coin by its condition of preservation from the time it left the dies and trying to put a value on it no matter what it looked like when it was struck.
One of those medals would make a good example in a grading seminar to go along with two "white" frosty-gem, BU Morgan dollars one of which has a very flat strike on the obverse (as made). While each can be considered as "perfect" as the day it was struck, one is worth far less.
Unnless of course, like me, you don't mind a flatly-struck gem in your album hole. They are much less expensive...LOL.. Yea, you'll be offered less when you sell them too...I have that figured in the equation.