Home U.S. Coin Forum

Define a dealer?

PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

A professional coin dealer will have the following
An EIN Number
A. State tax number
A bank account with their business name on the account.
A location with a phone number to the location.
A any thing else?

Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


«1

Comments

  • BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A costumer base.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
    Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got some base customers

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got some base customers

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm missing the Hawwian shirt!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A website.
    Some expertise.
    A coin show presence.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set:

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2017 3:28PM
    1. Supply sources of quality coins that leave enough room to be competitive at resale.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,397 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one really has me up in the air. Integrity when buying and selling hits the top of the list I would think.

    Ken

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    1. Supply sources of quality coins that leave enough room to be competitive at resale.

    That would be a wholesale dealer... (correct?)

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fairlaneman said:
    This one really has me up in the air. Integrity when buying and selling hits the top of the list I would think.

    Ken

    I FULLY agree with the Integrity aspect.
    along with honesty!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    buying/selling/representing as a Dealer will be their primary endeavor as well as source of income, not something they supplement another income with and do on the weekend.

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keets it was great seeing you at the Meadville show hope you had a good show.

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone who can follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Business

  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭

    Spilled mustard

  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭

    Printed duplicate receipts with their name, contact info, and terms on it.
    A business plan.
    Support various local, regional, and national coin organizations.
    Many also need an AML plan.

    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Someone who can follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you.

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool biz card with a ultra rare coin they don't own!

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Remains at shows until posted show end times.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thebigeng said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Someone who can follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you.

    TIC

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ditto, Pat. :)

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Obviously there are opinions on this... as with all things. If one buys and sells (products), then they are a dealer. Some deal on the internet, some from a table.... others from a shop. The effort here seems to be in categorizing dealers, not defining the term. Cheers, RickO

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A professional coin dealer works 9-5 at least, wears a shirt and tie, clean shaven, has a company logo, hat, jacket, etc., advertises and attends coin shows. Or maybe that was the way it was back in the 50s....Seriously the dividing line between dealer and serious collector is not that large. Buying with intent to sell may be a major criteria.

  • unclebobunclebob Posts: 433 ✭✭✭

    Not a collector
    Not married to any coin
    Everything has a price
    Maybe a specialist
    Probably a generalist
    Knows and Plays to strengths... sales, grading,
    Knows and compensates for weakness... sales, grading
    Network of Clients
    Network of Dealers

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you only buy stuff, you are a hoarder. To be a dealer you have to sell stuff and more than occasionally.

    FWIW, the difference between a hobby and a business - to the IRS - is a making a profit in 3 of 5 years.

    To be a business, you do not need an EIN. The majority of businesses (sole proprietorships) are run under the owner's SSN.

    You **need ** a sales tax number only if you are selling a taxable product (coins are not taxable in many jurisdictions). You may want one because if you have a sales tax number, you can use that # (or in some places get a reseller's certificate) and avoid paying taxes on supplies used in your business.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In the state of CT you have to have various licenses, at least according to their rules, if you are buying especially precious metals from the public, towns issue and govern rules on what is required through the police department. But do they care? I have asked the state licensing authority about a dealer who does his best to remain invisible to the authorities and they don't care.

    I know that HA and certain dealers want a copy of "dealers'" state tax license so they don't get hit with taxes or for regulatory purposes. However kowtowing to a government bureaucrat is not the criteria of a "dealer".

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I forgot about the AML plan, in my case it was approved by fincen part of the IRS.
    If you can't follow the rules and regulation set by the government, then your ethics may be in question.
    Like it or not.

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @foodude said:
    Printed duplicate receipts with their name, contact info, and terms on it.
    A business plan.
    Support various local, regional, and national coin organizations.
    Many also need an AML plan.

    As a coin dealer wouldn't a certain amount of sales have to come from bullion in order to need a AML?

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After reading the above, I'm pretty sure that I'm not a coin dealer.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of companies that have nothing to do with any form of PM require AML controls...the crooks are very slick.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Only one thing is required to be a "dealer"

    A customer.

    Everything else is just the spectrum from not-so-great to great dealers.

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone who can profit consistently selling coins that they have purchased.

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a lot less technical than any of the above.....

    But if you buy coins for the sole purpose of selling them....you might be a dealer.

    Just trying to clear some space between the "intentional buy and sell" person, and the many of us who may sell parts of our own collections for various reasons, (change of direction, upgrade, mistake, lost interest, etc.)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2017 1:37PM

    @shorecoll said:
    Lots of companies that have nothing to do with any form of PM require AML controls...the crooks are very slick.

    True. But as far as the "law" for coin dealers, the AML plan is only required if you do $50K per year or more in bullion-related/intrinsic-value related buying/selling transactions per year....typically cash-equivalent instruments. Most big coin firms and bullion buying B&Ms likely qualify. These days, even a generic MS66 $20 Saint or MS64 $20 Lib would be considered "bullion-related." I've seen numerous interpretations on just how to tabulate the $50K (checks, cash, or whatever). I've seen so many different opinions and interpretations of the rules that I still don't fully understand it. Most dealers probably ignore it or are ignorant of it. Most small vest-pocket dealers or part-timers would never get close to the $50K threshold.

    But, if you can find someone who can recite all the ins and outs of the AML requirements, and they buy/sell coins too....that's almost certainly a coin dealer (or at worst a federal agent, tax attorney/CPA, or financial crimes attorney).

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shorecoll said:
    Lots of companies that have nothing to do with any form of PM require AML controls...the crooks are very slick.

    Can one actually purchase a plan suitable for one's business?

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @shorecoll said:
    Lots of companies that have nothing to do with any form of PM require AML controls...the crooks are very slick.

    Can one actually purchase a plan suitable for one's business?

    Yes
    And it can be costly.
    ITCA can help.

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PTVETTER said:
    I forgot about the AML plan, in my case it was approved by fincen part of the IRS.
    If you can't follow the rules and regulation set by the government, then your ethics may be in question.
    Like it or not.

    There are plenty of dealers who are careful to follow the letter of the law, but also try to get the lion's share of profits in transactions, and all is forgiven if they pay "their taxes". In my book ethics has little to do with legalism, and everything to do with real morals, conscience and intent. Tight buy sell spreads, transparency in transactions, not hiding or giving self-serving versions of the truth depending on who you are speaking to. Try the PNG code of ethics on for size: http://pngdealers.org/code-of-ethics/ That's a good start but being a good honest dealer involves a lot more.

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a person or business that buys and sells coins

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joebb21 said:
    a person or business that buys and sells coins

    That would any coin dealer.
    The question is about a professional coin dealer.
    Flee market dealers buy and sell coin, I do NOT consider them professional coin dealers. Do you?

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think any of the things listed in the op make a person a professional coin dealer. Sure a "professional" Coin dealer may have many of those things but I'm guessing that many of the rip off shops and gold and silver hotel buyers have all of those as well.
    A person can be a professional coin dealer in my opinion if they buy and sell coins more often than not with the intent to make a profit, Treat people fairly and act with integrity. There are many levels of this as others have posted.
    This thread reminds me of previous threads where "professional" coin dealers on here called out smaller sellers as wannabes etc. Just because somebody doesn't have a checkbook with a business name on it doesn't make them any less professional IMO.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the majority of your income comes from selling coins you are a dealer.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He has what you want. For a price.

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, if a "coin dealer" has a coin you want and is willing to sell it to you; does it matter if they are not a "professional" dealer?

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2017 9:14PM

    A dealer is a dealer. It doesn't matter what the commodity is or if he is "professional" or not. He has something you or someone else wants. For a price. Think coins, think drugs. It's all the same. A dealer is a dealer.

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PTVETTER said:

    @joebb21 said:
    a person or business that buys and sells coins

    That would any coin dealer.
    The question is about a professional coin dealer.
    Flee market dealers buy and sell coin, I do NOT consider them professional coin dealers. Do you?

    sure. the quality of the dealer> @PTVETTER said:

    @joebb21 said:
    a person or business that buys and sells coins

    That would any coin dealer.
    The question is about a professional coin dealer.
    Flee market dealers buy and sell coin, I do NOT consider them professional coin dealers. Do you?

    I do. If you are consistently buying and selling coins you are a dealer. If you make money on every coin you buy and sell you are a dealer. If you lose money on every coin you buy and sell you are a dealer.

    Perhaps more of what your question should be is "define a successful dealer".

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • TetromibiTetromibi Posts: 940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2017 2:40AM

    @thebigeng said:
    Well, if a "coin dealer" has a coin you want and is willing to sell it to you; does it matter if they are not a "professional" dealer?

    Of course it matters. I'm not buying from some sketchy guy in a parking lot that stole the merchandise!

    Though I do buy from individuals on eBay...

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2017 5:51AM

    Other than what else mentioned - enough inventory to fill his cases at shows.

    Four Major Factors Defining a Dealer:
    1. Both buying and selling
    2. Everything for sale
    3. Decisive, able to make quick on the spot decisions about deals.
    4. Superior organization and business skills. Good cash management.

    I have my PCGS inventory in my phone which comes in handy and find many buyers want to do a Cert verify on an item. So knowing or being able to access the PCGS price on a PCGS coin is important.

    At shows: When a coin is sold I delete it from my eBay store and PCGS inventory manager or when it's purchased (assuming PCGS) photo done from phone then added to both.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tetromibi Well, guys like Brett Bogus come to mind, he was a "professional" so being a "pro" doesn't always guarantee a professional transaction....

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bushy eyebrows. Hair growing out of ears and nose. Balding, fat. Big magnifier hanging around neck. Smells of donuts and coffee. Low grumbling emanates from deep within his throat when he grunts and growls. Scary looking, with pointed and sharp teeth. He typically hides under bridges, waiting to eat pets and young children, after dark.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file