An 1816 Large Cent
BillJones
Posts: 34,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
I found this piece at the Early American Coppers convention which was held last week. My wife and I had a great time and spent several days looking at the historical sites in Philadelphia. I'll be posting some picture over time.
This was the last date I needed to complete a "Randall Hoard" date set. At the end of the Civil War a keg of large cents was unearthed from under an old railroad platform in Georgia. The coins eventually ended up in the inventory of a coin dealer, R.S. Randall, who sold the coins in the 1860s and '70s. The coins were Mint State and AUs, and those pieces are the reason why Matron Head large cents dated from 1816 to 1820 are common in Mint State. The most often seen dates from my experience are the 1818 and 1820. The specialists have narrowed that down to 1816 N-2, 1817 N-14, 1818 N-10, 1819 N-8 and 1920 N-13.
It was my experience that the 1816 is the hardest date to find in this group. I looked a number 1816 large cents over a three year period in Mint State or close to it, and the prices were several thousand dollars, which was more than I was willing to pay. This one, graded MS-63, Brown, was more reasonable. It is an 1816 Newcomb 2.
I can post the others if you like. I have shown some of them in the past.
It is interesting to note that the Philadelphia Mint only made large cents in 1816. A fire on January 11, 1816 destroyed the building where the roller mills were located. That prevented the mint from rolling out gold and silver sheets for the year. The cent planchets were imported from England after the end of the War of 1812. So if you would like to form a year set of 1816 U.S. Mint coins, here it is unless you happen to be a variety collector.
Comments
Very nice 1816 Randall Hoard cent! I also purchased an example of this date and die marriage back in 2002, but mine is a PCGS AU50, rather than an MS example. I recall that it cost under $400 and was raw at the time, but I had it graded at some point.
Looks good for a 63. Is that area above the brow just a strike weakness? It appears to be, as it is not discolored and the brown is very uniform. However, I purchased a 'Mohawk Valley Hoard' coin that had some bluntness and it was labeled 'ground effects' from being buried, as the coin was otherwise mint state.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That's a beautiful example!
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Nice coin Bill
Wow nice looking coin
HAPPY COLLECTING
I can't say that I have heard of this "hoard" before. It does make sense with the high end, affordable, large cents of that era. I always like the radial crack on the 1818 N-10 (as mentioned in your OP).
Really nice 1816 large copper!
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John Wright notes in his large cent book that this date is almost always weakly struck in that area. If it has detail there, watch out. It may have been engraved, or it might be from the China Mint. They have been known to "improve" pieces in areas where there are die breaks or weak detail.
I have a nice, brown 1820 unc that probably came from the hoard. I have resisted submitting it to PCGS because it has a small spot that looks like it was tooled/scratched to remove something. absent that it's a nice chocolate MS64, a little darker and better struck than the OP coin.
Bill, your coin is the answer to a trivia question the stumps lots of collectors.
Thought so. Thanks, for the info, Bill.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Nice pickup.
For those who are not familar with this variety, here it is. This 1818 Newcomb 10 was a wedding present from my wife.
But 1818 was not the only Randell variety with a circular crack. Here it is on an 1820. This must have a been a weak spot on these dies.
There is a nice article on the Randall Hoard in 'America's Copper Coinage, 1783-1857' (Coinage of the Americas Conference No. 1). QD Bowers also discusses this hoard in his book on American coin treasures and hoards.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Very nice coins and a nice write up, Bill.
Yes, thank goodness for the Randall hoard coins, or most of us would never own a mint state large cent dated before 1850 LOL!
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nice coin
Large Cents just don't seem real in other than chocolate brown...they are out there though.
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Very nice looking 1816.
Couple of spots that show in the photo that are, hopefully, not so noticeable in hand (under neck/above 8 and bottom of "M" in America). Pics always exaggerate things so those may not even be noticeable or anything at all.
I love the 1818 randall hoard I got from Rhedden years ago (raw, had it graded at same grade I bought it for...as I had a few slots to fill in a submission).
While all these coins have some history, adding in something like the Randall Hoard to the history is pretty cool.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I always get a kick out of seeing those cents with the circular die cracks. Nice coin and nice writeup, Bill!
Very presentable coin, thanks for showing it here
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Beautiful coin and good post.
I always seem to learn something new when @BillJones makes a new thread. Love your posts.
Great thread...thanks!
K
Cool post! Here's my 1816 in 58+, could be that they considered that there could be rub on that curl.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Wow! That's a super nice one as well!
Maybe some friction or rub or something, but still ... WOW!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Ah, an 1816 large cent in vg condition was the first date I acquired in the mid 1960's. Cost me a whopping $2.50 plus postage and insurance of which cost about 35 cents. I was a kid, large cents were new to me and seemed kinda neat. I still have this coin in my large cent collection. I do not know what Sheldon or Newton number it is. Back in the mid 1960's not many collectors collected by Sheldon numbers. Someday I will post it here.
Bob
Great newp Mr. jones.
A friend of mine who just happened to be in Philly, stumbled upon this show.
He's a newer collector and was blown away when he went in.
I haven't heard anything about the EAC 50th show and look forward to your report about it and what sites you saw.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
That is a very nice large cent Bill, and thanks for the information along with it.... Cheers, RickO
I have a well worn 1816. The date is special to me and historically is was the year with no summer.
I....of course.... sold....the one ... Coronet.... I liked.....
Great looking Matron cents and great background story Bill. I've always enjoyed reading your posts!
Freddie
Here are a couple more from this era. The 1817 is NGC AU58. N6, R1. Jules Reiver, George Ramont collections. And the 1819 is NGC XF45 N8, R1.
Lance.
An excellent coin. I was very impressed by the EAC bourse.
it looks pretty frosty. i like it a lot.
Yes there was a volcanic eruption on one of the islands in the East West Indies. The dust from that effected the weather on the entire planet for several years. In 1816 there were snowstorms in the New England states in July and August. Needless to say crops failed and some people faced starvation.
My grandfather's gg grandfather died in February of that year in Pennsylvania. He was up there in age but have suspected that it was the weather of that year that took him.
Ah, an 1816 large cent in vg condition was the first date I acquired in the mid 1960's. Cost me a whopping $2.50 plus postage and insurance of which cost about 35 cents. I was a kid, large cents were new to me and seemed kinda neat. I still have this coin in my large cent collection. I do not know what Sheldon or Newton number it is. Back in the mid 1960's not many collectors collected by Sheldon numbers.
A couple things I'd like to clarify - Sheldon's numbers ended with the date 1814.
Newcomb numbers start with 1816.
Since Sheldon's original work was published in 1949, then updated and renamed in 1958, it may surprise folks how many people were collecting by Sheldon numbers in the mid-60's.
And prior to Sheldon's original work, there were others who published works on large cent varieties, like Lapp, Silberman, etc. McGirk's publication and tables of large cent varieties by date was issued in 1914. The study and collecting of large cents by die variety goes WAY back.
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