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Should coin dealers charge for appraisals?
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Since "WE PAY HIGHER PRICES"
and
"FREE APPRAISALS"
seems to be in every ad, would you be willing to pay for appraisal of the coins you bring in?
(not talking bullion that's so constant it makes almost no difference where you go}
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You are someone else, does eventually pay for the appraisals as nothing is free.
"Free' appraisals is only used to draw in customers with their jarful of old coins.
The dealer just pays a little bit lower to make up for lost wages and lost time during the 'appraisal' process.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I'd be willing to pay (for estate value or insurance purposes) in order to avoid high pressure sales tactics. I'd feel the expertise was worth the remuneration, just as in other fields.
This of course would not apply to times when authenticators/experts offer free services for promotional purposes.
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
My local B&M really gives people the shaft, especially for their raw coins. I think that this along with the 'free advertising' is payment enough. JMHO.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Not with a banner of "WE PAY HIGHER PRICES"
There is a couple of these outfits that come to town each year setting up shop In a local motel for a couple of days. Run ads in advance. I went once. Showed a 1921 Peace @ MS64 CAC green bean. $500, said the appraiser. Two years ago.
It's Lowball City.
Go in get your free appraisal which will just be a buy offer then ask for it to be written up for court documents. I am guessing it will no longer be a free appraisal.
Of course they should, and if you want an appraisal you should be willing to pay. If you are not paying the dealer has little fiduciary responsibility and basically what you are receiving is an offer to buy.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
Why would anyone expect to obtain a professional appraisal for free? Maybe the TPGs should grade and encapsulate our coins for free too.
In my experience, most of the services that I have obtained 'for free' were worth exactly what I paid for them.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Several I know do, depending on how big the collection is. One of them decided this after repeatedly working up big collections, only to have the owners say "thank you, I just wanted to know what this was all worth" after indicating they might be interested in selling.
Yes, I believe they should
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
After reading the previous remarks, my thought is that the conversation should go something like this:
Customer: "Are you doing free appraisals?"
Dealer: "Are you looking to sell, or just to find out the value?"
Customer: "Oh, I'm ready to sell".
Dealer: "I'll make you an offer on some of the coins, and then we can both decide if we want to pursue it. What'cha got?"
I knew it would happen.
Depends on the circumstances.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
All I've ever done were free appraisals. And not once did I end up with a single coin (or even a cup of coffee) for doing so. I'd probably still do them free....but, not without at least a glimmer of hope that I might end up with a coin or two...or a half dozen donuts for my efforts.
More than likely, if you're giving the 1st appraisal, you're the 1st to be the bearer of bad news in 90% or more of situations. In those <10% of situations where you will be informing the owners they actually have something of real value... now the odds are even greater you don't end up with it because they figure it must be worth even MORE than you suggest. It becomes a treasure/family heirloom. Invariably, when great coins or collections owned by non-collectors get "appraised" by the locals, they sell for peanuts. Appraisals are a "funny" thing. In the collector car hobby or in jewelry, they don't mean squat and are usually grossly inflated.
We provide free "verbal" appraisals, so if someone come in with coins and just wants a ballpark value, there is no charge for that.
We charge for "official" appraisals for attorneys, estates and insurance purposes. This involves transcribing the appraisal into a formal document.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
@roadrunner your right on. For me, I do "free" if it a handful of items. If it is a lot of stuff, I will pass..
On the quickies I do, I typically do not offer to buy them so there is no conflict of interest. Also, I tell them it is an opinion of value. First, I always ask if they own the coins.. If they do not own them, like in cases of divorce or whatever, I will refer them to a dealer that charges.
If I really, really like something I will offer to buy for X price on the spot but inevitably they want more opinions so I don't get the chance.
Sounds reasonable for a dealer offer (if that was their buy price).
I see nothing wrong with appraisals that are not in writing.
My time is wroth something and so is the information I have.
There is an old saying " sellers are yelers and buyers are lyres ".
You get what you pay for.
Those free opinion prices are in general low because they can't look at each coin !
I learned EARLY to do this.
Got fed up with "Thanks, I'll think about it."
I started FREE appraising about 4 coins from a collection and then asking, "How's that? Do you want to sell those?"
If they said they wanted ALL of them done, I told them it would be $35 per hour or fraction thereof.
Really separated the tire kickers and jerks sent by competitors.
I would then do the paperwork and PAY for those 3-5 coins and....THEN... proceed with the rest.
I would think that either a paid or free appraisal will look at every significant coin shown to them. Why wouldn't they? And, neither of them will look at every coin (ever circ buff, every wheatie, every 90% silver coin, every circ silver dollar, every coin in a BU roll, etc.).
I always ask the customer upfront what their objective is. If they indicate wanting an informal evaluation without commitment to sell, I offer to do it gratis within a reasonable time frame. If they want a written appraisal, it becomes a fee based service. I 've done such informal evaluations with a worksheet on a legal pad, and then had non-sellers ask me for the worksheet. I politely explain that if they had wanted a written appraisal, they should have stated such, however the worksheet can be released for a minimal appraisal fee, and that a copy of the worksheet stands as a purchase offer for a limited time only, should the customer decide to sell, with a rebate for the minimal fee at time of sale. Many here would be surprised at how often Joe Sixpack thinks that we are a free source of information so that they can use that information as a basis to sell to their friends and family or in extreme cases to leverage that against another dealer.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I pay $2500 to a national dealer have my appraisal updated every year for my bank and consider that a very good deal
I offer free appraisals if they just want to have something looked and noted.
If formal with letter head, I charge a fee, especially if they are not selling. if selling, I then refund back the cost I charged for the appraisal.
I don't mind doing easy appraisals, just on the off chance they come back and sell at a later time. I feel good about the offers we give, so lots of times, if and when they get around to sell, I get a chance to buy it down the line.
I remember one time vividly on a 60k deal, did an appraisal for a family that made it clear they weren't selling, only later to come back 2 years after and sell.
On the bad side, I have had a couple over the years give me the false indication they wanted to sell, only then to keep it in the family. In fact, I did one for a brother/ sister that wanted to sell, only then to have the brother literally write the sister a check in my office on my desk for her portion. I was pissed!
They definitely should be paid for a formal written appraisal to be used in any legal manner but not for an "appraisal" of how much the dealer would pay for the coin.
$35 an hour is cheap for an accurate evaluation. Just imagine what we're paying PCGS per hour for an appraisal
We need to separate insurance (retail) appraisals from selling appraisals (wholesale). My old dealer (now passed away) would charge $175 an hour for an appraisal, but if the client would sell him the coins at that price, he would waive the fee. If they wanted to know retail value, they could add ~25% to the appraisal value. He adopted this approach as he once spent two days appraising a collection, and all he got at the end was "thanks, I'll let you know if I'm interested."
Should we assume the value of your coin collection is more than $2500? Otherwise, it might not be such a good deal.
US Civil War coinage
Historical Medals
Lol
I was hoping you found that funny.
US Civil War coinage
Historical Medals
As a dealer it has all depended on the material presented. If the customer has a great collection of valuable coins, that takes quite a bit more time to appraise than a jar of whatever someone pulled from change.
Why should dealers work for free? Are you family? Are you married to the dealer? if you answer NO then you pay.
My base rate for consulting (not numismatics) is $100/hour, plus - if required,
travel, room and meals.... That includes time to write conclusions. Further services become more expensive - such as implementation of recommendations etc.. So, I agree, appraisals come with a fee if anything beyond a verbal "You have some potentially valuable coins here - it will take further analysis to determine precisely how valuable." My professional expertise did not come free and I do not give it away. Cheers, RickO
At least a dozen+ inquiries every day asking for free
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I'd say anyone that offers free appraisals probably won't pay as much as someone who charges.
This.
No
Yes. After all, you get what you pay for.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
No, that's a courtesy a professional should provide. I can see charging if hours are involved in actual work (with no chance at recovering lost time through an imminent sale) but a handful of coins for a random person, if you can't do that free it's time to retire.
Every local coin store I have been in is like a step in time back to a 1960's barber shop. Owner and 2-3 guys sitting around talking about coins, gold, silver, guns, politics, sports and the news of the day. One local dealer does offer consultations/appraisals one on one after hours and on an off day for a fee.
Depends on the circumstances. In my professional career I gave thousands of free OFFERS to people who walked in off the street with stuff. That's just part of the business.
My most expensive APPRAISAL involved a group of banks that had accepted coins as collateral for millions of dollars of loans from a person that was on the Boards of Directors of most of the banks WITHOUT GETTING A PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL PRIOR TO MAKING THE LOANS! They just took his word for what was in the sealed boxes he gave them. Much of the expensive stuff (there was a lot of common stuff to make the bulk look impressive) was either mis-described, mis-graded, counterfeit or just plain non-existent. My work involved travel, court appearances and a lot of research. I dang well earned the $30,000+ in appraisal fees that my company billed the banks.
They should if they are not being offered for sale - insurance, estate, court, ...
I doubt it. Whether written down or not. A potential buyer usually leaves lots of room to buy the "collection." And usually the more valuable the coins, the bigger the room allowed. Of course slabs tend to interfere with this time-honored tradition as the slab grade often gets you inside the ball park.
The quality of a coin appraisal, and the size of any potential offers, is directly related to the integrity and ethics of the appraiser and/or potential buyer(s)....not whether free, not free, written, not-written, etc. It helps when the appraiser actually knows what they're doing....not as easy to find as you'd think. I've seen a lot of appraisals of collectibles over the years....most of them not worth the paper they were printed on. I think as a rule, coin appraisals are fairly rare as the market is a lot more efficient and easy to locate "somewhat accurate" price guides than for other collectibles. And the collectors themselves usually know what they have. In my mind, I think coin dealers shy away from written appraisals, as they probably reduce the odds that they end up with the coins. Their best opportunity is when those coins first walk in the store.
I agree with this thread.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Pretty much what we do. If someone is looking to sell, we'll look over everything and make an offer on the group. No charge and no obligation to sell. If they want the entire collection itemized and broken down either for estate purposes, or perhaps insurance purposes, we charge for that. If a paid appraisal ends up selling us the coins, we refund the appraisal fee.
I do not charge for purchase offers.
I do charge for appraisals.
Very different things and have very different purposes.
I think they should charge admission to even enter the store.
Is there any negative legal ramifications for a coin dealer that advertises/performs collection appraisals for a fee and then comes up with a valuation in bad faith in hopes of purchasing on the cheap from some uninformed party? I'm not one usually for the expansion of the size and scope of government but perhaps more regulation is needed on those that are compensated appraisers so that fewer conflicts of interest arise.
That's why even houses are now called an "estimate of value."
You NEVER do an "appraisal" without some authorization by some recognized organization.
When any question starts with "Should..... ....?"
my answer almost always starts with, "It depends...."
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It is an ethical gray area when the person doing the appraisal is either the buying or selling party. I am not sure if I am 100% okay with the idea of an appraiser acting as an agent for buyer and seller, where they get a commission, but I would allow it.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Any appraisal dealers do in my experience with this process Is usually to make a buy offer and is free.
If u have PCGS coins the inventory manager will give u MV from PCGS price guide plus totals / pop info. It is a fantastic tool. I even have it in my phone.