PCGS and CAC should work together.
Stooge
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If you have a beautiful coin with a CAC sticker and want to get the coin sent to PCGS, you lose the sticker right?
Well PCGS should work with CAC and have a system where if a coin is sent into PCGS for a regrade and/or a new holder PCGS puts a new sticker on the slab.
For instance if you have a coin that has a green sticker and you get it regraded and comes back in the same grade, PCGS will then add a new green sticker to the slab so you don't lose it, but if it upgrades you don't get the sticker.
Also if you have a gold sticker and it upgrades 1 full grade, you in turn only receive a green sticker.
I think this would generate more business for both companies.
Thoughts?
Later, Paul.
1
Comments
CAC will re-sticker it if it is reslabbed with the same grade. I think you have to send it in with a pic of the coin in the previous slab.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Never happen.
PCGs and CAC are kind of already working together albeit in a defacto sense. It used to be taboo to post a CAC thread here. PCGS correctly choose to let CAC posts stand as it only has strengthen the PCGS/CAC value combination. Want the most for your coin? That's what you want.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Come on cac wold loose money if they did that
HAPPY COLLECTING
I didn't know that. I just had an idea and thought I would share, but it would eliminate from having to send your coins into CAC yet again.
Having PCGS resticker your coin would obviously come with a fee that CAC would then get a piece of.
Later, Paul.
If CAC went to shows and would re-sticker free of charge....I might take all of mine that had stickers and were lost due to reholder (attribution and rattler kills). The cert numbers are on their database. It would be quick and easy..no viewing the coin would be needed.
Maybe CAC should have a National special something like pay for 5 stickers and get 5 restickers for free.
Do they have quarterly specials?
Later, Paul.
PCGS probably sees CAC as a company leeching off of their success. To some degree the plus system competes with CAC stickers. If I were PCGS, I would not work with CAC at all.
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"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
PCGS + CAC = PCAC (Pacific Coast Acceptance Corporation).
The jokes can start anytime now.
2 separate companies.
Should they do that with NGC as well? If not, why not?
As a collector, I won't disagree that it would be nice...and it's part of the reason (the other being I don't sell coins much at all) that I don't send coins in to PCGS for regrade. I like the sticker on the ones they are on, but I don't want to keep sending to place after place and paying all those shipping costs (PCGS->CAC->PCGS->CAC->etc etc etc_)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
If I were PCGS I would create a textured label area that stickers would not adhere to.
They can't handle the business they have now and they don't do shows. They don't make their money stickering coins and that's not their business model.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don't know that it would give CAC the warm and fuzzies to allow another company access to their proprietary stickers and to lose control of that inventory along with, possibly, their reputation if something went amiss on someone else's watch.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If CAC would judge coins at shows I would bring 300 to the next major one. I am not comfortable mailing them.
Lance.
CAC should simply join PCGS and work in the same room. Add their opinions as an after thought for the after market grading. Like consultants or whatnot. I'd also place the little decal INSIDE of the pcgs plastic slab so it can't be altered or removed nafariously.
So the premier grader in the business should hire a consultant to either agree or disagree that a coin was graded correctly? This has become madness.
You make a good point. I'm with you, 101%. Question is, why don't they?
Wizard of Oz always worked best behind the curtain.
No. John Albanese is in the business of buying and selling coins, mostly wholesaling them. The sticker is just to let people know he will offer to buy said coin. PCGS is in the business of grading coins.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I find it interesting to see how misunderstood the CAC business model really is.....Cheers, RickO
I have mailed 150+ coins to them in dozens of packages, no problems.............
Mailing coins is part of living in the numismatic fastlane, sometimes you will get burned, but very rarely.
Best, SH
Why should they and incur the cost of being at the show? They charge $13.50 to collectors per review and any that don't get stickered are not charged. They don't make money doing this, they make money in the market of their stickered coins. Since they get plenty of submissions via the mail, and have more than enough to meet their market needs, no reason to pay for shows.
TPG's are different, they make their money in plastic, so they have to be at shows as it is a significant part of their buisness.
Best, SH
Lance there is also the alternative of making an appointment with CAC, flying with your coins to New Jersey and getting a concierge type of evaluation. Apparently this comes with discussions over the ones that don't bean as well. With high value sets of 300 coins, they will do this, all you need is a membership......
Best, SH
WHy does CAC not grade at shows? I asked JA that very question 7 years ago and posted his response right here on the boards.
IF you cannot find the very detailed post then I will post it again after my tax season ends April 18th.
There is no reason PCGS should as grading coins is their business and I would be against it (I don't want CAC interfering w getting my stuff graded lol).
If someone as an adult wants to spend money submitting to CAC that is their decision and they need to take responsibility for any loss or cost if they then submit the CAC coin to PCGS thereby losing the sticker.
It would never happen. PCGS will stick by their grade. They dont need someone else telling them how they grade. It would look real weak if they did such a thing.
Why mail in coins four or five X's? Grades--- crack out and regrade--- crossover again--- NOW sent to CAC? Cut out the middle man (the post office) and send coins in ONCE (both pcgs and cac for easy peasy grading/authentication/warranty/conservatism (perhaps)/and CAC'ing!).
They couldn't exist in the same place at the same time, the universe would explode. Imagine the arguments over why so few gold coins get a sticker if the graders and JA were staring at each other.
There would be a soundproof curtain between them so you couldn't see or heard the grades.
I have thought of that...hundreds of coins in carry-on luggage, flying from CA to NJ, spending time in a nearby hotel. Kinda like what dealers do all the time for shows. To me, it sounds expensive and onerous, maybe even a little risky.
I've had CAC submission privileges since day #1 so that's not a problem.
Thanks for the ideas, SH!
Lance.
How about forming a relationship with a dealer near CAC who will submit the coins on your behalf? Easy enough to meet the dealer at a show.
."PCGS and CAC should work together"
A fourth party grader in house with a third party grader?
Might as well send it to the fourth party grader directly, without the PCGS slab. CAC needs the slab, needs the previous grade to make the business concept work.
I don't disagree with PCGS annoyance with CAC.
The topic of conversation was geared more to PCGS restickering the slabs that already had stickers for those that wanted to get a reslab or a regrade, not so much receiving an initial sticker.
PCGS and CAC would still be separate grading entities.
Later, Paul.
PCGS could print the blessing on the label for reholders.
I can't see PCGS applying CAC stickers under any circumstances. Not that I don't like the idea. Just that it would be risky for CAC to hand out rolls of stickers and say "be careful". Mistakes happen.
There would also need to be follow-through with CAC as the cert# changes with regrades, even when the grade doesn't. CAC would need that information for their database. More work and coordination.
While PCGS has come to accept CAC and maybe even appreciate those who promote "PCGS/CAC" as the ideal, I think given their druthers PCGS would prefer a marketplace without them. I don't believe PCGS is ready to sleep with them.
Lance.
It won't happen. Now if PCGS ..bought... CAC....welll.......
The OP has some novel ideas, but what makes one think that a coin with a gold bean that happens to upgrade when resubmitted should be an automatic qualifier for a green bean afterwards?
Interesting point. I suppose one would expect that a gold beaned MS64 would be at least a green MS65 in CAC'S eyes. What if PCGS ups it two grades though........without a new bean of some sort if would be no better than raw.
It is best serving the hobby if both parties stay independent of each other somewhat like checks and balances.
Just remember that grading is very subjective and that is a simple fact.
Well it was idea that if PCGS received a gold sticker and it was for regrade that if a coin went up 1 full grade it would in turn receive the green bean, but if it went up 2 full grades it wouldn't receive anything. As far as being the same as raw, who in their right mind is gonna squawk over having their coin go up 2 full grades vs. losing a sticker? Not me, I would elated for sure.
Later, Paul.
My understanding of CAC (which seems to be declining the more I learn,) Is that the gold means simply that the coin as holdered is under graded, so a two increment increase in grade could still be eligible for a bean...perhaps even another gold one.
I have done that several times after variety attribution....and the serial number does not change...no image required if the serial number is in the database...at least I have not submitted images along with re-CACing a coin.
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In theory a coin that upgraded with a gold bean, could go back to CAC and get a green bean, but it is not automatic.
Maybe that newly upgraded coin would not be considered primo for the grade to get a green bean. All hypothetical and kind of interesting to think about.
Yeah, and could you just imagine the threads whenever someone thought a PCGS graded coin didn't deserve a sticker? There would be many posts of people fingerpointing and claiming that the wrong coin got the sticker, etc.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
That does not make sense hypothetically or otherwise. Are you suggesting that a gold beaned 64 might only be a bottom third 65 in the eyes of CAC?
Topstuf is right....time to go back to stamps.
Yes that is what I am saying. A gold bean is just saying it can upgrade, that does not also mean that it can upgrade and also be solid for the next grade up. If said coin upgraded the value could go up exponentially anyway even without another bean stuck to it.
So CAC with the gold bean is not saying that the MS64 is really a solid 65 (or better,) just that it can upgrade?
For a ten year old company that now owns the $1000 plus market, there sure is a lot of confusion about the meaning of their little stickers from some very serious collectors.
Yes there is a lot of confusion about it. Keep in mind though, I am saying that it is not automatic, I am just saying that it could happen. Respectfully IMO it is absurd to think that if a gold bean upgrades it gets an automatic green bean on the next grade up. That is like saying always or never. If a coin with a gold bean upgraded two points, should it get a green bean then after the two point upgrade also? I suppose it could but from what I know that is not how it works, if I am wrong so-be-it and I guess I have learned something new.
Following the logic of CAC the single point jump on a gold bean should be automatic. Assuming that one can prove that the coin in the new holder was the same coin that was originally stickered.
Another question. Though two point jumps are rare, why does cac not specify when a coin is undergirded by that much or more?
I was wondering if CAC has something beyond a gold bean, such as a platinum bean?
Later, Paul.