PCGS Trueview Opinion

Numiven

I love Trueview and I am trying (semi-skilled) to produce pictures like that from home.

I have been spending a lot of time and effort in understanding how PCGS true view pictures are done.

I work on trueviewed coin and compare my results (various shots and post processing) to the trueview image.
For now, I feel, I have some inferences, please let me know your opinions on this.

Inferences:
1. Trueview images are quiet post processed or dressed up.
2. Sometimes we are able to take better picture of the coins at home!
3. Some trueview pics do not really represent the coin as seen in hand under a good light.
4. Gold: trueview shows lesser scratches and nicks than a slightly magnified view in hand under good light.
5. Overall, I feel trueview is a little glorified image of the coin!

What do you guys think?

PCGSPhoto

If I may address some things for the tread:

• You may be surprised that we do very, very little post processing. 90% of our editing is just feeding images into an image worker server that then sorts and separates them into individual certificate number files in a browser-based editor wherein we choose an image, rotate it and align it inside a template. That's about it. Takes a couple of seconds. More oblong and unusually shaped coins need to be cropped out more precisely in photoshop.
• We try and take multiple shots of coins, so if an issue comes up where a customer is unsatisfied with a shot we can show some alternatives.
• We literally photograph thousands of coins each week. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't. But we're always striving to put out a high quality service.

Thanks

Wabbit2313

Do you mind sharing the browser based editor?

oih82w8

Coin Imaging. Those who can...do. Those who can't...send 'em to Phil & crew for TrueView. I fall into the second grouping.

WingedLiberty1957

Phil (PCGS TrueView) is tremendous !!! Top rating.

lkeigwin

@Numiven said:
For now, I feel, I have some inferences, please let me know your opinions on this.

Inferences:
1. Trueview images are quiet post processed or dressed up.
2. Sometimes we are able to take better picture of the coins at home!
3. Some trueview pics do not really represent the coin as seen in hand under a good light.
4. Gold: trueview shows lesser scratches and nicks than a slightly magnified view in hand under good light.
5. Overall, I feel trueview is a little glorified image of the coin!

What do you guys think?

1. I don't think so. While we can debate color accuracy and saturation on a case by case basis, on the whole True View images appear "unprocessed" (to me).
2. Sometimes. We spend a lot more time at it, I'm sure.
3. Most coins look different under varying lighting conditions. Nothing beats an in-hand look.
4. All a matter of lighting. I do not believe PCGS intentionally hides anything in the TV's.
5. Overall, TV images are outstanding.

Lance.

Numiven

Absolutely. I love trueview, please do not mistake me. I am their biggest fan. I am trying to crack their code btw...

TwoSides2aCoin

David Hall says : "Have fun with your coins"
I say : Have fun with your camera.

Sucks to be me behind the lens.

messydesk

I agree with Lance's assessment. For the volume they do, TrueView is quite good. Is it as good as what I could do with raw coins? That's an "eye of the beholder" question. For coins I do for myself, mine are better, because I know exactly what I want and how to get it, and that's the picture I take.

Regarding TV images being overprocessed, I guess Phil already addressed that. I do agree that some TVs I've seen look shockingly oversaturated. This can be a result of setting saturation preferences on the camera to accommodate what works best with 90% of the coins you shoot, thus optimizing your workflow so that you don't have to deal with it in post-processing. If you think a particular TV image is too saturated, open it up in Photoshop and desaturate it a little (Ctrl-U, move the Saturation slider to the left). It will look better.

bolivarshagnasty

The coins are shot raw if you didn't know already. Hard to replicate.

PCGSPhoto

@Wabbit2313 said:
Do you mind sharing the browser based editor?

It's a proprietary piece of software that was created for us to automate our workflow. It only works on our servers, so we can't really share it. Prior to its implementation we had to edit every coin file into a photoshop template - a very time consuming process.

This is only a small part of the whole infrastructure of our image database, which has grown to millions of individual images, with thousands being added every day. It's really a marvel of software, and a lot of effort has gone into it by our IT staff.

basetsb

@PCGSPhoto said:

@Wabbit2313 said:
Do you mind sharing the browser based editor?

It's a proprietary piece of software that was created for us to automate our workflow. It only works on our servers, so we can't really share it. Prior to its implementation we had to edit every coin file into a photoshop template - a very time consuming process.

This is only a small part of the whole infrastructure of our image database, which has grown to millions of individual images, with thousands being added every day. It's really a marvel of software, and a lot of effort has gone into it by our IT staff.

Thank you for your efforts! We love our Trueviews!

DIMEMAN

Phil and his crew do in seconds what takes me a half hour and then mine is not near as good. They don't have the time to spend on each coin to try and get it as accurate as the coin in hand like we do at home. They do a great job especially considering the time frame they have to work in.

Zoins

@bolivarshagnasty said:
The coins are shot raw if you didn't know already. Hard to replicate.

Shooting raw is actually easy to replicate. Just crack and shoot! It's just that many have an aversion, and rightly so, to cracking which is one area TrueView helps.

Numiven

@DIMEMAN said:
Phil and his crew do in seconds what takes me a half hour and then mine is not near as good. They don't have the time to spend on each coin to try and get it as accurate as the coin in hand like we do at home. They do a great job especially considering the time frame they have to work in.

Yes. Hats off to Phil. It takes me a good 30 mins to get coin into a poster like trueview!

If and only if Phil can give us some tips (more than existing interviews and articles), it would be great.

Phil, can you please help us out numismatic photography aficionados out here. Thanks!

Numiven

BTW @PCGSPhoto , i have a lot of fun with the lenses camera, photos and the coin!

@PCGSPhoto ... Can you please share what lenses, camera, setup you at TV use please? Can I take the privs to ask you if you can share a picture of your coin studio (the setup) please......

PCGSPhoto

@Numiven I'm frequently asked about my setup, and there have been requests for me to teach a class on coin photography at the Long Beach Show. However, PCGS feels that it's best I keep the specifics of my equipment and techniques secret. Sorry to disappoint. I try to be helpful as helpful as I can in my articles for the eZine though.

I do want to make a video to show all of you the process, and our studio. But that will have to wait until we get our new studio space in a few months.

airplanenut

I think one of the biggest advantages (if not the biggest) with TrueView is the fact that every coin is shot raw. When coins are slabbed, lighting angles tend to be limited. For some coins, it's not much of an issue, but for others, you get pigeon-holed into a certain look because the coin can only be lit one way while avoiding a reflection. Once a coin is raw, there are many more ways to light it, which will in turn change how some of the color and marks appear. I don't think this is an issue so much in the sense that the coin will be misrepresented, but rather that some appearance simply can't be replicated once the coin is put in a slab.

As a quick example, consider a proof that can have its fields lit or dark. When the fields are lit, the coin is a headlight, any toning in the fields is shown, and just about any hairline or minor mark is made invisible. When the fields are not lit, the devices might be a bit sharper, but some toning will not show up or will be muted, and hairlines may become more visible. One way or the other isn't right or wrong, but those are two ways to look at the coin. It's also possible that you can only shoot the coin one way when slabbed, but both ways can be easy when the coin is raw.

bolivarshagnasty

BTW Numiven, can you describe to the rest of us what crow tastes like?

Numiven

@bolivarshagnasty said:
BTW Numiven, can you describe to the rest of us what crow tastes like?

Not sure what that means? Can you please be clear and explain...

airplanenut

@Numiven said:

@bolivarshagnasty said:
BTW Numiven, can you describe to the rest of us what crow tastes like?

Not sure what that means? Can you please be clear and explain...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_crow

mercurydimeguy

I envy Phil for being able to shoot raw coins, when I get a chance to do that I can't wipe the smile off my face and take WAY too many images of the same coin. And while those who shoot a lot of images have become adept at working around our handicap (e.g. shooting through slabs), nothing beats getting our hands on a nice raw coin to image

Here's a raw coin from my Colorful Dollar album (all raw Dollar size coins), which I've been building for 10+ years...

dmwest

@mercurydimeguy said:
I envy Phil for being able to shoot raw coins, when I get a chance to do that I can't wipe the smile off my face and take WAY too many images of the same coin. And while those who shoot a lot of images have become adept at working around our handicap (e.g. shooting through slabs), nothing beats getting our hands on a nice raw coin to image

Here's a raw coin from my Colorful Dollar album (all raw Dollar size coins), which I've been building for 10+ years...

Awesome Morgan!

Kyle

@PCGSPhoto said:

• We try and take multiple shots of coins, so if an issue comes up where a customer is unsatisfied with a shot we can show some alternatives.

I'm curious how long these multiple shots of the same coin are kept for? Would it be possible to see the alternatives, even years after the coin was slabbed and photographed?

Numiven

@airplanenut said:

@Numiven said:

@bolivarshagnasty said:
BTW Numiven, can you describe to the rest of us what crow tastes like?

Not sure what that means? Can you please be clear and explain...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_crow

Not sure these guys read my replies and appreciation of TV and Phil.

Nice behavior is respected always..

bolivarshagnasty

1. Trueview images are quiet post processed or dressed up.
2. Sometimes we are able to take better picture of the coins at home!
3. Some trueview pics do not really represent the coin as seen in hand under a good light.
4. Gold: trueview shows lesser scratches and nicks than a slightly magnified view in hand under good light.
5. Overall, I feel trueview is a little glorified image of the coin!

Which of your statements show appreciation?

Welcome to the forum. You are ahead of the game if you can take photos and process them with software to share here. It took me quite a few years to get there. Hang out and learn what's going on. Always seems to be a topic to learn from. The PCGS team does not participate here much. The fact that Phil felt he needed to respond to your thread tells me you were pushing the limit. Tread lightly when criticizing PCGS. Make yourself familiar with the Forum Rules posted at the top of the page. Look forward to seeing your coins and your photography talent.

bolivarshagnasty

It is true, that you can sometimes capture colors/luster that TrueView can't.

Numiven

@bolivarshagnasty thank you. Appreciate it.

I am a young numismatist and I am learning a lottttt every day. The coins I posted like the 1995w ase and 1911 d 2.5 Indian are the master pieces of my collection... but as u said.. i am learning every post and enjoy it.
I self learnt myself and the true love of our great nation is keeping my interest alive!

Here are my two important pieces, it does have flaws.. but this is from an amateur like myself:

mkman123

@Numiven Great photography skill! I like it

I would like to say that Ive bought some pcgs coins with true view and most of the time, the true view appeared to make the coin look better than it really was. To me it felt the picture was juiced and I was left disappointed with the coin in hand

PCGSPhoto

@Kyle said:

@PCGSPhoto said:

• We try and take multiple shots of coins, so if an issue comes up where a customer is unsatisfied with a shot we can show some alternatives.

I'm curious how long these multiple shots of the same coin are kept for? Would it be possible to see the alternatives, even years after the coin was slabbed and photographed?

I have orignal source files going back to around December 2011.

lkeigwin

I don't think I know any business as customer-friendly as Phil Arnold PCGS's True Views. His customer satisfaction practices are extraordinary.
Lance.

jtlee321

You have to admit, the PCGS TrueView service leaves the photography options offered by the other TPG services in the dust.

ricko

TruViews are awesome.... Yes, we also have some fantastic coin photographers here on the forum.... I can remember when the first pictures were posted... and at the time, everyone was in awe.... We have come so far in this area. It is also true, that home photography (or some of the great photographers here that help members) can produce 'beauty shots'.... those that bring out the best qualities of subject coins. Cheers, RickO

WingedLiberty1957

A TrueView Collage ...

1. Start with Phil's TrueView Photos
2. Cut out and Resize the coin images to the correct aspect ratio
3. Lay them out over an old historical background

You can create masterpieces like this ...

WingedLiberty1957

Another FUN little project you can do ...

Classic Coinboards

1. Start with Phil's TrueView Photos
2. Cut out and Resize the coin and place onto a vintage digital coinboard

You can create masterpieces like this ...

With a single photographer, single camera, single lighting setup, and single processing procedure on the front end -- the coins can be compared side by side in an accurate way.