Focus Stacking: A Coin Photographer's Trick of the Trade

Boosibri

Really helpful article from Phil Arnold:
https://www.pcgs.com/news/a-coin-photographers-trick-of-the-trade?utm_source=email&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter-pcgs-2017april4&spMailingID=53777691&spUserID=MzY3Mzk0OTYzNzMS1&spJobID=1140668083&spReportId=MTE0MDY2ODA4MwS2#.WORoJF2ypMQ.mailto

Coinstartled

Photoshopping rare coin images...I love it!

Boosibri

Helping to get high relief items in focus

ricko

This is way beyond my skill level in photography.... which stopped sometime shortly after the Kodak Brownie... Cheers, RickO

mercurydimeguy

I had posted on this topic about 2-3 years ago, it is the only way to get high quality, fully focused (at every depth) images of high relief coins like the ones below (I shot these at 4 depths and merged the images). Stacking is not necessary for most coins, but for high relief coins the results are amazing!

Wabbit2313

@mercurydimeguy said:

I had posted on this topic about 2-3 years ago, it is the only way to get high quality, fully focused (at every depth) images of high relief coins like the ones below (I shot these at 4 depths and merged the images). Stacking is not necessary for most coins, but for high relief coins the results are amazing!

mercurydimeguy, those images are amazing. Now that is talent!

LanceNewmanOCC

.
certain cameras should come with this option, especially with camera motors & lens gears.

the camera would stack them automatically. choose from 2-20 images. the need for this option has been around a long time.

they already allow for rapid shutter release.
.

Goldbully

@ricko said:
This is way beyond my skill level in photography.... which stopped sometime shortly after the Kodak Brownie... Cheers, RickO

Now that's a camera.......

ricko

Yep... that is the one... also a baby brownie.... Cheers, RickO

1630Boston

Great information, I appreciate you sharing it

brg5658

Been around for years. Not really news...some of us on these boards have been using this method for high relief items for a long time.

Desert Moon

I did not know about this function, will certainly be advantageous when I have coins angled to the lens. Thanks Boosi for making me aware of it.

Best SH

asheland

That gold ancient is sweet!

TequilaDave

This technique is also useful with toned coins that show their colors best at a small angle to the camera.

abcde12345

Thick coins shouldn't be stacked due to scratching. Photography them is safer.

YQQ

For sure, these images are the ultimate of coin pictures (I am envy ) and are super results using very high priced and top level specialised equipment. Such a setup is every photographers dream. It is not a problem if you do this professionally and can write this off on your taxes, or have lots of spare pennies for toys

But, the cost to get "there" is rather steep. correct me please if I am wrong. If you wish to have all your coins imaged and processed this way and have the needed resources for that, this would be the ultimate way.
I guess it comes down to what you can afford and prefer to spend your available spare money on: great coins, or great images of coins or both.

Personally I think that most collectors are happy to see their coins in hand naturally. For pros, it is an absolutely invaluable tool and a must have situation.
But a simple, dedicated collector can normally not afford these high priced toys.

considering one needs a relative top level Camera (body only) estimated minimum at $ 1000
a top level macro lens estimated minimum at $ 900
a much better than normal lighting set up estimated minimum at $ 300
a high end very solid camera stand estimated minimum at $ 200
Software which allows to do this process estimated minimum at $ 400
software to connect the camera to a monitor estimated minimum at $ 200
Misc little item like filters etc, cables etc etc $ 300
training and lots of time on how to do all that ??????
A investment of well over $ 3000 is needed to achieve results similar or like this.
Besides the very obvious satisfaction you get if you are successful taking Images like above, is it worth it?
It took me many months to achieve reasonable results with a normal Canon body and a Tamron macro lens.
And I hate to say it, despite automatic settings, I still have big issues with the white balance and a few other settings.
Again, great images and a super process.... at a cost. Is it worth it for the average collector?

messydesk

@YQQ said:
...
But a simple, dedicated collector can normally not afford these high priced toys.

Total cost to set this up can be far less than you think, but...

...
Again, great images and a super process.... at a cost. Is it worth it for the average collector?

No, it's not worth it for the average collector. I would use this for some high relief stuff, or perhaps coins made on a rocker press that aren't entirely flat, but that's me, and not an average collector who is only marginally interested in coin photography. For me, photography is an integral part of this hobby.

I also like taking pictures of family, but I have invested nothing in studio lights, props, backdrops and researching assorted portrait lighting techniques. It's not worth it to me.

If you really want to get a feel for what focus stacking can do, a friend of mine does microminerals. Here's a gallery, including specifications for field of view and number of photos stacked. Some rather amazing shots at resolutions down to the wavelength of visible light, and yeah, he spent some serious coin on the setup.

OldIndianNutKase

This is a great technique, although a little labor intensive. Very similar to HDR psot processing in Photoshop except it is based upon focus and not on exposure and contrast. But like some cameras do HDR within the camera, a camera could also do this internally but I do not know of any that do this today. I use Nikon Camera Control Pro 2 to operate my camera from my computer on my monitor. Maybe Camera Control 3 could provide this fundtionality?

I think that focus stacking might not work so well if the coin is in a slab?

OINK

brg5658

@YQQ said:
considering one needs a relative top level Camera (body only) estimated minimum at $ 1000
a top level macro lens estimated minimum at $ 900
a much better than normal lighting set up estimated minimum at $ 300
a high end very solid camera stand estimated minimum at $ 200
Software which allows to do this process estimated minimum at $ 400
software to connect the camera to a monitor estimated minimum at $ 200
Misc little item like filters etc, cables etc etc $ 300
training and lots of time on how to do all that ??????
A investment of well over $ 3000 is needed to achieve results similar or like this.

Not true. You can do this stuff for around $400 or less in equipment, and with free software like CombineZ. You can't get massive throughput like you could if you invested more, but you can certainly take images as good as PCGS and using focus stacking for your personal use and with a little practice and patience.

@OldIndianNutKase said:
This is a great technique, although a little labor intensive. Very similar to HDR psot processing in Photoshop except it is based upon focus and not on exposure and contrast. But like some cameras do HDR within the camera, a camera could also do this internally but I do not know of any that do this today. I use Nikon Camera Control Pro 2 to operate my camera from my computer on my monitor. Maybe Camera Control 3 could provide this fundtionality?

Commercial utility of this (for the masses) would be minimal at best. Yes, it could be built into the software of the camera to focus at various levels, but for most people they're shooting hand held images, and the movement of their hands alone would negate these fine levels of depth of field movement. It could be built into camera control software for those shooting on a fixed copy stand and who care about macro photography...but again, very niche.

For improving (deepening) depth of field for things like portraits, etc. you already have the ability to just change the aperture. This is really a "photomacrography" niche problem. You can buy focus stacking rails on which you mount your camera, and your camera then progressively takes hundreds sometimes thousands of images fractions of a millimeter apart. People do this a lot (and it has been around for a long time) for things like taking images of insects or gems.

PCGSPhoto

I've also used this technique with my very small mineral collection:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l2xnp4s4u1mebar/AADsDOMeXAz1vCFqP6n0ZmF2a?dl=0

Glad you've found the column interesting. My eZine entries are always sort of last-minute and rushed. Anyone have any questions (in general) or topics you'd like me to cover in future entires? I'm always scrambling for ideas.

Thanks!

messydesk

@OldIndianNutKase said:
...

I think that focus stacking might not work so well if the coin is in a slab?

Slab or raw doesn't matter, except for one thing. If you include slices that are too close to the plastic, the imperfections in the plastic (a bigger problem with NGC slabs) or scratches will start to be in focus.

lkeigwin

$3,000 is well on the high side. A $500 camera, $800 macro lens and $100 for jerry-rigged tripod and lights would do the job (all of which can probably be bought used for half that).

Start small and improve it over time. I think I still have my old desktop tripod.

How important are photos? I'd say extremely, especially when most coins are locked up away from home.

As for stacking, I played around with it using a $30 photographic objective, free software, and a pingpong ball for light diffusion (below).
Lance.

YQQ

wow, great stuff honestly amazing.
perhaps someone here should start a permanent forum about coin photography** **where we pose questions , problems and get answers and solutions.
It would be a very busy forum I think.

Have the first question here:
i have been playing with different lights and many settings, from automatic to you name it on white balance. sometimes it comes out great. other time it makes a gold dollar out of a silver dollar....(my software will then fix it) HELP please
and, what macro lens is best to use: 90mm or 110 mm ?

i am sure others have many more questions...
thank you all
I leave the word to the experts..

brg5658

@YQQ said:
wow, great stuff honestly amazing.
perhaps someone here should start a permanent forum about coin photography where we pose questions , problems and get answers and solutions.
It would be a very busy forum I think.

Such a forum already exists on the Coin Community Family (CCF) site at this link.

It is quite active, and is not entangled with any of the TPGs.

Wabbit2313

Lance, that image is cool! Ping pong ball?

mercurydimeguy

@Wabbit2313 said:
Lance, that image is cool! Ping pong ball?

Don't laugh, I sometimes even use 2-ply Charmin

robec

Microscope stand, enlarging lens, 2-3 jansjo gooseneck LED lights, bellows and an entry level DSLR that is able to work with Live View is all you need. The total cost is far less than YQQ listed

Microscope stand ~$200
Lens depending on which you choose - $50-$300
jansjo lights - about $15 each
Canon EOS body with free LiveView software - $400-$500
Bellows - under $100
Not only are the results equal to those of a setup that includes a dedicated macro lens and copy stand, but the amount of space needed on your desktop for the microscope stand setup is a fraction of space needed for the copy stand.

A comparison of sizes: left is a 180mm, center is a 100mm, right is an enlarging lens

A comparison of desktop footprint sizes.
Microscope stand setup (right side of photo) sitting on a Deskmate II copy stand.

A preview of microscope stand setup results using LiveView. LiveView controls your camera through your computer.

lkeigwin

LOL...yes, pingpong ball.

To be correct, it is half a pingpong ball (a hemisphere) with a small circular hole in the top that fits around the end of the objective lens. The pingpong ball hemisphere covers the entire coin. Any light shone at the pingpong ball is then diffused or spread throughout.

I didn't invent the technique. I read about it on a photomacrography forum.

Diffusing light for coin macrophotography (as opposed to photomacrography) can be done in hundreds of different, creative ways. mercurydimeguy uses 2-ply Charmin. I know messydesk uses tissue paper. Copier paper works. I've seen white milk jugs cut up for specific uses.

I followed Mark Goodman's advice and fashioned wire coat hangers into an infinity shape ( ∞ ) and then covered them in white ripstop nylon (the stuff boat sails are made of). The two loops are big and broad enough to deal with the two halogen lights I use. The coat hanger hook is the handle. I made one one-ply and another two-ply (when used together, 3-ply).

Lots of weird creations and adaptations come into play with coin photography. Broadstruck uses a hair comb for shimming slabs (when coins are tilted in their holders). Thin at the edge and thicker deeper. (You weren't pulling my leg, were you broadstruck?)
Lance.

robec

Another option for diffusing Jansjo LED lights is using the square caps for 50 cent size plastic holders.

northcoin

Years ago I invested in a close-up 3-D camera for the very same purpose. Of course to see the coin images with depth a 3-D viewer is required. Still an option though for anyone not wanting to forego the computer route.

brg5658

Some of the coolest macro work of coins I have seen comes from Ray P. (rmpsrpms on several other forums).

He uses the stacking of images to construct 3-D renderings of coins (particularly RPMs of Lincoln Cents). You can check out his images at this link.

lkeigwin

I agree! rmpsrmps is a wizard. He helped me with photomacrography a few years back. He's on our forum too and goes by the same handle.
Lance.

jtlee321

@robec said:
Another option for diffusing Jansjo LED lights is using the square caps for 50 cent size plastic holders.

I use the same thing for my Jansjo light's. I've found that the half dollar holders that have the holes at each corner fit nice and tightly over the head of the Jansjo and don't need the tape.

On another note, the particular tube you pulled those caps from, fit snugly on the head of the jansjo and make a really nice diffuse light that is easy to aim or even turn sideways to spill very diffuse light on the coin.

robec

@jtlee321 said:

@robec said:
Another option for diffusing Jansjo LED lights is using the square caps for 50 cent size plastic holders.

I use the same thing for my Jansjo light's. I've found that the half dollar holders that have the holes at each corner fit nice and tightly over the head of the Jansjo and don't need the tape.

On another note, the particular tube you pulled those caps from, fit snugly on the head of the jansjo and make a really nice diffuse light that is easy to aim or even turn sideways to spill very diffuse light on the coin.

Duh!! I never even thought about using the tube instead of the cap. Thanks for the wake up call.

jtlee321

@robec said:

@jtlee321 said:

@robec said:
Another option for diffusing Jansjo LED lights is using the square caps for 50 cent size plastic holders.

I use the same thing for my Jansjo light's. I've found that the half dollar holders that have the holes at each corner fit nice and tightly over the head of the Jansjo and don't need the tape.

On another note, the particular tube you pulled those caps from, fit snugly on the head of the jansjo and make a really nice diffuse light that is easy to aim or even turn sideways to spill very diffuse light on the coin.

Duh!! I never even thought about using the tube instead of the cap. Thanks for the wake up call.

LOL.. I didn't at first either. I had bought a couple of tubes to use the caps. The caps did not fit, so I was a bit disappointed. Then the lightbulb went off and I thought, "Hey, these are really loose, I wonder if the tube will fit?" Sure enough, I actually like them a lot more than the caps from the other tubes.

CoinZip

Dino-Lite has a similar version, only certain models have this feature.

EDOF capture mode can take several pictures at different focus and stack them automatically within a click. The resulted EDOF image maintains the picture quality from its original pictures.

For high contrast or reflective surface, the EDR capture mode can help to reveal the details of dark or bright areas, which may lost in normal capture mode, by stacking images taken at different exposure levels. The freely adjustable polarizer helps to reveal more detail or to enhance the contrast on the surface by reducing or eliminating the reflections.

LanceNewmanOCC

an oldie but a goodie !