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Setting up at a show with little to no inventory, but just to buy?
opportunity
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I have been a vest pocket dealer for years, and I operate very smoothly by making strategic buys, and re-selling to dealers. I very rarely sell to collectors, and really don't want to get into the retail end for the most part.
Which leads me to this thought...
I have never set up at a show before, but was considering doing so. I was thinking that I would just buy a table in order to buy wholesale from the public, but would not have an inventory with me. Would those in charge of a show even like someone to do this?
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
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I've seen it a few times but they would have at least one case with just a few items.
I've also seen them make buys and put it in that case.....but not for sale.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Just stick to the Ferangi Rules of Acquisition and you should do fine. But remember rule #82... When buying always have something for sale
You will be competing with every dealer that also buys, which is pretty much all of them. Need to ask yourself why people would pick your table to sell to? Are you getting the table closest to the door? Are you offering better prices? How would people know that? Just some things to think about.
As a seller I would wonder why someone has no coins to look at to draw some potential sellers to. You need some "honey" to draw some "bees" in.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I've witnessed other dealers buy a table at a show as a base of operation to walk the floor during the dealer only portion of a show, but primarily for the benefit of buying wholesale or trying to cherrypick certified coins for arbitrage.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Or you could ask a dealer who needs help to share a spot with you, I have thought of doing this but a lot of show managers don't want too much table collaboration.
Interesting idea
I think it would appear better to have some items for sale and as stated above you will be in competition with most every other table at the show JMO
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I'll also add that I doubt you'll make many friends with the others who are setting up traditionally.
If you care.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Not sure if the show promoters would allow this, but maybe a big sign that says you buy coins for cash, and then fill your case up with stacks of cash. Seems like it would get sellers attention.
I know of some dealers who did this for our local shows. But, they were also well known quantities that other dealers would hold back deals for in order to show them first. They rarely went to sell a coin, only buy. And nearly everything was from other dealers. Buying from the public at shows is harder than you think, and very hit and miss. Most of them already have their favorites on who to visit and give first shots to. The table set up without coins for sale isn't likely going to be one of them. I'd at least bring some coins to put out in the area you might be a strong buyer in. Type coins, classic choice BU gold, better dates, etc. all got attention. Nothing says you have to sell them. If you're buying from the public, that would suggest you can also sell to them.
"Wholesale" from the public is an oxymoron for most dealers set up at shows. It's easier to buy for true "wholesale" from other dealers where you have a good chance to make money. The "wholesale" prices offered up by the public at large tend to be closer to retail, with little room if any to make money.
Best to share a table .. Just buying ,,people will walk by ,,put something interesting out ..In the past used some rare currency notes , pricey coins to get table gazers ...Got offers to trade , sell, buy..
A sign offering "Free Appraisals" would also help.
I would think that this approach would work best at smaller shows.
Just try not to get robbed.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I do this at our local show we have in town, usually set up one case and save some of the nicest items and place them for sale in the case and or on display. I am mainly there as advertisement for future business in the weeks ahead at my office.
But, I have found that people that come in to the show to sell usually go to the dealers that have large spreads, or closet to the door. There is something about the mentality that if a dealer has a lot of coins, they pay better, which is farthest from the truth down our way I can assure you, but people seem to flock to those tables first to sell their coins.
So, with this , if your purpose is to buy, your going to have to put something up or do something flashy to get public coming in to come to your table first, or at least before they commit elsewhere.
As a dealer I had very people approach me at a show to sell coins to me. Quite often what they did offer didn't amount to much.
If you are hoping to get a fair amount of the material offered to you, I think that you will be disappointed. The best item I ever bought at show from the public was a raw 1877 Indian cent that graded EF-45 in my opinion. I had it graded and sold it as a slabbed coin.
The few times I've set up, I had very few offers of coins to buy and I wasn't really interested in buying. You could always post on CraigsList that you're setting up to buy, but that also sets you up to be watched and possibly followed due to the likelihood that you're flush with cash.
I don't like that idea. What's wrong with retail to public? Pays more. Just sitting there at empty table? Not what I am about.
Bring enough to fill at least one case. If need filler material - collector coins in bourse trays or world currency. Filling 2 cases ideal, cases can be rented in most instances. I bought 4 bourse trays that fit perfectly in 2x3 ft case. Two had 28 slots for collector coins in 2x2 and one had 4 areas for dumping out roll material then another for Pf sets, slabs, currencym, etc. whatever I felt would bring good retail. I would price the inexpensive material at least cost x 2. Use codes for both cost and retail.....
I would at least want appearance I am somebody in the business.
My first show in 1990 had just one case - all slabs sharing with friend from coin club. Following shows I set up with at least 2 cases. People think the public walking in the door has tons of coins to sell - truth much different. Most have nothing or just junk, others wanted some unrealistic price or could not make a decision. It helps if just lay money on table in making offer. Ben is a persuasive guy.
It's tougher than you think. Besides, there is very little worthwhile just walking in from the public. As others have mentioned , many go to "known" dealers at the show as they may have done past business and where satisfied.
Depending on things, you may try to become a table assistant for someone. I have a helper and it works great for both of us. I get an honest second set of eyes and hands, he gets in early, is known to other dealers and can have seconds buying at my table. You shouldn't expect first crack at things.
Good luck!!
several years ago I was at the PAN Show walking around and stumbled onto a dealer table with two showcases, absolutely packed to the gills with yellow envelope Proof/Mint Sets. I though I had died and gone to Numismatic heaven. I stood there for a moment and then looked around in hopes of seeing who's table it was, finally I bent down to see if could figure out what year the sets were.
suddenly, in swept the table owner.............................it was Val Webb!!!! we spoke for a few minutes before he was off down the aisle. his only reason for the table and cases was to store what he bought at the show.
I agree with the consensus that it would be wise to have at least one case with some coins in it, if only to get people to stop at your table. I always have a few coins to give to YN's also.
Yes, give a ways to YN's can make their day and perhaps make an impression of you on the parents
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Make sure that the coins in the case are cents, large cents, etc. these seem to garner the most attention. Put a BIG buying sign on your case too.
Empty cases are a turn-off for show attendees. You need to have something that will attract their attention and prompt them to offer something for sale.
I know a few dealers who do this, but they have 0 interest in dealing with the public. They are there to do business with the vest pocket dealers and other table dealers at the show. Even so, they usually have something in the cases. Once when I first started doing the shows, I was interested in a coin in one of the dealers cases and he wouldn't even show it to me until I showed him my sellers permit and got my resale number on file with him.
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There are occasionally good opportunities. I know a dealer who tells me of some of his rips like buying an 1814 Bust half for under $200 and having it grade at AU53. But the temptation is paying too much as there is probably more risk behind the table than in front of it. I have had $2 1/2 Indians offered to me the guy claims are proofs. They can read your style by seeing your coins and then tailor make sales to you. A guy from a pawn shop once walked in with a 55 DDO that he claimed was MS63. No one else would bite at $2K--the shot owner wanted cash, but I did. It graded MS62 RBcac so at least I didn't lose on that.
If you were buying and didn't have visible inventory I'd walk right by.. like these guys said, stuff like large cents or old bills or even 3 cent pieces grab attention. A wide spread of variety will show people you know what you're doing. And tbh, bring stuff you're willing to trade, too. I dunno if I'm old school or what but I also like to make deals and get to know the person. I've 50/50'd sales and buys but I'm a small fish custie just finally getting back into this. You never know.
Ugh and I can't edit my posts and forgot to add.. the stuff you're willing to trade is gonna help. I've brought coins before wherein I just wanted money, and others I was flexible on. If we were too far apart on a deal and you threw something in, I'd shake your hand if sale/trade was right and all would be well.
You want to attract Sellers? Try over-pricing the few items you're selling.
That'll suggest maybe you'll pay top dollar for my coins.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
How many people bring coins to sell at shows these days? Not dealer to dealer.
Set up with at least 1 case, preferably 2. If you don't want to really sell just overprice your wares if asked for a price on something. Put out signs indicating what you're buying. Sellers might respond if they think you need what they have.
Be prepared if something is offered. You often only get one bite at the apple.
Another strategy might be to set up with someone who's not buying as aggressively.
I don't find that comment about the 1814 half dollar that some dealer "ripped" for less than $200 and then turned into a AU-53 inspiring at all. It's unethical behavior like that which gives our business a bad name.
As for the rest, yes, there are plenty of traps out there when you are buying raw coins or coins in off brand holders. That's why a dealer who buys and sells significant coins has be as good as the guys who work in the grading room at the major third party graders. Certification cuts down on a lot of the riff-raff and junk, but not all of it. And when you are dealing with raw coins, it's your ability and experience against the wolves.
Just set up a free coffee and tea stand. And a big sign of "we are buying". Problem solved.
It makes you wonder. Guys go around the country buying coins out of motel rooms, who pay rock bottom prices. Yet you seldom see people at coin shows who are offering coins for sale, other than the bourse dealers. Why are the motel guys more attractive as buyers? It beats me.
Free condom boxes.
I understand the "lots of coins on display = This dealer must pay the most" idea.
I do not agree with the actuality of the statement, but for many people, it is what "works". Like Walmart must always have the best prices since they are big, or the car dealership with 2000 cars in inventory, etc.
I do not understand the "dealer to dealer" sales though. I sell, not in the coin world, and the discount I give is based on quantity someone is buying, not because they say "I am a dealer" If a "end user" wants to spend $50, then it is a $50 sale. If the end user picks out $3000 of inventory to buy, and offers $2800, I will jump on it.
If a dealer says, I want that $50 item, but since I am a dealer, I want it for $35, so I can put it in my space and sell it for $50 in a few hours when the "general public" is allow in, the price is still $50.
Sorry, I do not buy into "dealer only times or prices"
I agree that unreasonable buy prices damages the hobby, in that case maybe he got lucky, bought the Bust half reasonably but knowing him he wouldn't have paid more even if he knew he was going to sell it for over $700 after certification. But I see low offers or tailoring the buy prices to the knowledge or "story" of the seller. The "best" "opportunities" are with surviving members of collectors who are just looking for ready cash. Also stolen swag, a huge opportunity for unethical cash buyers.
In the past, I would often bring some coins to shows.. mainly to show acquaintances (such as Russ)... Those times that I did bring coins, I usually carried them in a shoulder bag. Many table dealers would ask "Are you selling something?" "What do you have in the bag?".... I always disappointed them, since my coins were not for sale. Though, upon showing a few of them, I did receive some respectable offers...Cheers, RickO
The prices offered at shows seem about the same to me.
"Why are the motel guys more attractive as buyers? It beats me. "
because they advertise very heavy in color, brought by mail right to your door, lie through their teeth and mainly target older people or people who are hard up for Cash! At least they do this here in Canada. i have many stories and should write a book about it. Several times in recent years I got police and press involved.... but these shysters are walking on a honed edge of a very sharp knife, just on the legal side by a very thin hair
their advertising is ruthless and steps on many toes..., but tons of vulnerable people fall for it, especially the elderly.
what are they buying?: most valuable things only. they will not take junk. a few weeks later you can find most Items at your "favorite" online store or (AND we all know the sellers there) , and surprisingly at high end auction houses. We do know most of these houses, but coins do not talk.
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As a small show promoter, I would be hesitant to rent a table to somebody just to buy. If you bring a case and have coins for sale, I would not have a problem. The dealers who attend regularly do not care for newbies just buying, and for me, I would rather keep the regular dealers who have helped me throughout the years. Another concern I have is "as a vest pocket dealer" do you have a tax license for the state and do you have a federal EIN? In some areas where I have promoted shows, the tax people have tried to require me to provide tax ids, which I did not, and have come to the shows wanting to see tax ids of the dealers. Most states require your tax id be "prominently displayed."
Another thing I would caution about, and I have seen this, is for you not to interfere with other dealers who are in the midst of negotiations for buying coins. I have had this happen several times at shows I have promoted and it caused major hostility between the dealer who was negotiating and the dealer who interrupted the deal. I have not allowed the offending dealer to rent another table, as my shows I want dealers with common sense.
The numismatic knowledge of the general public is at a very, very low level these days. The full page newspaper ads attract the attention of the general public and offer CASH. Sellers want/need cash and these buyers have it. Their audience is older and may have inherited such collections ... and all they want to do is convert them to cash as quickly as possible. This isn't new ... it has been going on at least since the 1979-80 bullion price run-up.
Who cares what we think - talk to the show organizer.
some organizers and table renters are not happy with vest pocket dealers doing business on the floor with other collectors.
Should prominently display it on your behind in giant black magic marker for the tax man.
Unknowing owners of coins or heirs have no clue their coins are really valuable. It's easier to buy them by low balling them it is to tell them they have a $1500 coin and you'll pay $1,000. If they knew that they'd walk out with their "prize." But offer them $100 or $300 for it, and it's sold. While it goes counter to common sense, the low ball and rip-off buyers seem to win more often than those trying to be fair and honest....in all collectibles.
Yes, you are right. There was the srory of the woman in New Hampshire who had the 1838-D half eagle I now own in MS-63. She offered the piece to an honest New Hampshire dealer who offered her more than her asking price. She walked out of the store and made a few deals that cost her money.
Sadly sometimes honesty is not rewarded. Good deeds are not always rewarded.
A $500K collection walked into a Hartford, CT dept store coin shop in 1988. Offer made was $5K. The widow walked. A real coin shop was the next stop (PNG dealer too) where the "offer" was raised to $50K. She sold....unfortunately....and probably largely because the 1st guy low balled so much. At $50K you almost appear honest next to a $5K offer. Now if anyone made an early offer of $200K-$350K, no way they would have gotten it.
There are many dealers at shows that hardly ever turn their inventory. One could say they only go to shows to buy more stuff.....because they certainly don't go their to sell anything.
Roadrunner:
"The widow walked. A real coin shop was the next stop (PNG dealer too) where the "offer" was raised to $50K. She sold....unfortunately....and probably largely because the 1st guy low balled so much."
Was this reported anywhere in print?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I had a competitor whose quote was, "I will pay more than topstuf (but he used my real name) is paying so go see him and then bring it to me and I will pay more."
I found out about it and the next guy who came in was actually green enough to TELL me what bozo was doing so my quote was "more than what he will pay."
Bozo turned inside out. Didn't know WHAT to do.
The he said, .....ohhhhh,,,,,, now I seeeeeee....... hmmmm.....
At which time he sold to me.
Coin dealing is SO fun...
Oh, to the OP...
Sure. Set up a table and fill it with your gemmiest stuff and price it at moon money.
It gives you credibility as "having" coins for sale.
AND big prices. (which is another psychological issue)
AND...... if you sell something.....well,, it works.
Yes. It's been printed here on the forum a number of times by myself and others over the past 5-15 yrs. It's no secret who the dealer was or where they were they selling stuff (ie Boston Bay State show). I doubt it ever made it to a newspaper or that the widow ever found out she was taken to the cleaners. If you recall back to Teletrade in the 1988-1991 period they were constantly selling MS64/65/66 Red 10-s/11-s Lincolns, likely hundreds of them. Those all came from the numerous rolls that broke from that collection. Those alone were probably worth the $50K. Now if that widow had been lucky enough to walk into the Hartford Coin show....she might have stood a chance.