Before there was CAC...
messydesk
Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was thumbing through the 1988 edition of Scott Travers' The Coin Collecvtor's Survival Manual while trying to answer another thread tonight and found this:
The ultimate new grading service is one that grade the grading services: U.S. Rare Coin Certification and Trading Co., Inc (351 Main St., Wakefield, MA 01880) says it will tell you if your coin certified by ANACS, PCGS, or NCI [this was 1988] has been graded fairly, strictly, or too liberally. When will it end?
Has anyone from days of yore heard of this service, used it, or seen their work?
John
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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This would also have been a great post for the "remember when" thread. Who started the other company? So CAC isn't as novel as we all thought.
I also wonder what Travers thinks of CAC. I haven't read the latest edition.
Maybe @BStrauss3 can shed some light. He's good at researching companies
https://www.bbb.org/boston/business-reviews/coin-dealers-supplies/crystal-coin-inc-in-wakefield-ma-1514
"Crystal Coin, Inc. is engaged in the purchase and sale of U.S. rare gold and silver coins, and gold and silver bullion coins. They also buy coins from estate liquidations. The firm was incorporated in Massachusetts in 1976 and employs twelve people. President of the firm is Mr. Peter Pienta. Vice Presidents are Mr. Leonard S. Pienta, Jr. and Mr. John Pascuiti. Any inquiries or complaints should be directed to the attention of the President. U.S. Rare Coin Certification and Trading Co., Inc. is a subsidiary of Crystal Coin, Inc. This firm certifies, grades and liquidates coins for clients on a consignment basis. They employ three persons. Any questions or problems regarding U.S. Rare Coin should be directed to the attention of Mr. John Blois, Manager."
Former PNG dealer David Carr's family ran Crystal Coin. Peter Pienta (PNG since 1977) is a well known name in the industry. John Pascuiti was a powerful buying force in the Northeast for many years. So this firm certainly had the skills to apply ABC type standards to slabbed coins of the 1988 era. I doubt much got by these guys. There was quite a bit of numismatic fire power in the greater Boston area in those days.
Currently at 358 Main St, Wakefield MA is Northshore Numismatics (since 1991 per BBB)....just 7 numbers from the 1988 USRCCTC address. Though the Pienta/Northshore link really takes it back to 1977 or earlier. Haven't kept a close watch on this but Crystal Coin may have become Northshore, spin offs, break ups, etc.
http://www.nscoins.com/visit
Eagle Eye was stickering Indian Cents well before CAC came into being. I'm not sure just when he started doing so.
Travers had a lot of interesting views, I read this book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Money-Coins-Right/dp/0609807463
It was about upgrades, put the bug in people's ears maybe not so great for the hobby. CAC gave me a copy of his book on the survival theme. Some good but old information in that book.
I remember years ago CAC being discussed here before they took off .... many scoffed at the idea ... many didn't ... no doubt many opinions haven't changed one bit ... lol
I have never seen an Eagle-Eye aprroved coin that I didn't like. If I were more of an Indian Cent person, l'd have more of them.
The following is for US RCCT in general but not on their slab verification service:
Here's a US-RCCT slab from PropertyRoom.com
CameoNut:
Travers is a very strong supporter of CAC. I recommend "the latest edition" of The Coin Collector's Survival Manual, the all-time greatest book about coin collecting.
Logger7:
He still does. It is not accurate to talk about him in the past tense. Two of his books will definitely be updated. A few years ago, I assisted with the update of the book that features a price guide.
I cite Travers in many articles, including one in 2015 on coin doctoring, where the revised seventh edition of The Coin Collector's Survival Manual is prominently mentioned. In the same article, Laura Sperber is quoted regarding CAC.
The Specter of Coin Doctoring and The Survival of Great Coins
I've see the slab (I have one or two), but didn't know about the certification of other's grade. Nice fine.
MA corporate search finds them http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSummary.aspx?FEIN=042938743&SEARCH_TYPE=1 as organized (In MA) on 10-09-1986 and dissolved (involuntary) on 08-31-1998. Usually involuntary dissolution happens after several years of non-filing. The last annual report was 1990.
The articles of incorporation are available (http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchViewPDF.aspx)
Peter Pienta is now the president of Northshore Numismatics Inc. - I sent a contact form asking for info....
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Fourth party grading was attempted before CAC.... and that was one reason many disparaged it at the time of launch..... However, CAC has certainly succeeded.. remarkably well, where others did not... Eagle Eye with IHC's is another successful venture. Cheers, RickO
4th party grading has been around since 1986-1987. They are called "resubmissions." They were common in the 1980's and still so today. If the slab or grade doesn't fit, you must resubmit.
I doubt that the "U.S. Rare Coin Certification and Trading Co., Inc " was ever a major force in the coin business. I agree that it is fascinating that there was a prior firm that certified coins that were already PCGS certified, and that this firm was operated by people in the mainstream. The various grading services that have emerged and faded over the years could be a topic for a Ph.D. dissertation in economics. Clearly, PCGS has a winning formula.
Roadrunner:
I had been told that Peter Pienta and Lenny Pienta were the owners and operators of Crystal Coin, and that John P. partnered with them in the auction business. What is or was the connection between "David Carr's family" and the Pienta family? Admittedly, I never researched these matters. Moreover, does it make sense for us to devote much time and effort to discussing this aspect of the history of the coin business? Although I remember enjoying talking about coins with Peter, I am not sure that we should be talking about him here, especially since we do not know if he is comfortable with being a topic of discussion on this forum.
I was sort of hoping that Logger7 was steering this thread in the direction of Travers' pertinent views, and of interpretations of CAC by commentators. Travers, Maurice Rosen and myself seem to be the only three writers who frequently discuss CAC. While articles in print publications occasionally mention that a coin in an auction has a CAC sticker, it is just the three of us wjo have, separately, discussed the purpose, success and consequences of CAC in published writings.