Why don't Flowing Hair Dollars "get no respect?"
topstuf
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First dollar coin of the country and priced like choice seated quarters.
Talking nice mid grade dollars.
???
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It's a two year design, with the '94 priced through the roof, so no one collects them, and the 7070 type album has no slot for them, so few collectors 'need' one. I'm guessing they are priced right about where they should be?
A generic VG runs about $2500, I've bought beautifully toned slider seated quarters for around $175....they are certainly interesting coins and I would love to own one some day.
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I would love to own one. Don't have the $ at this point in time. The cost basis comparison you draw is meaningless without knowing the grades of the flowing hair dollar and seated quarter in question. And your complaining sounds as though it's coming from someone with a flowing hair dollar for sale. LOL
I'm putting together a die marriage set of these.
So far, I have one die marriage.
Yeah, I have a long way to go.
They get plenty of respect. They are just too expensive for most collectors.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Okay, now I've been told.
I just think that a large essentially one year type would be in WAY more demand.
Even if it took saving up.
Oh well.
I've respected them. I found it easier to buy FH halves having the same design and being more affordable. While the FH 1794 dollars were untouchable, the 1794 FH half dollar made a viable alternative.
A FH dollar will always find a nice home. And they will always be highly cherished type coins.
Unintentional double negative in the title?
Ive always loved those early coins.
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yeah, the title makes me think of a show I saw about train wrecks. I gentleman being interviewed after one happened to remark "I can't believe nobody didn't get hurt" which tells me that everyone did get hurt.
This.
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Agree that mid grade 1795 FH dollars ...ought... to be 'worth' more, relative to much of the more recent numismatic market values.
I think part of the reason is the ... Mid Grade ... aspect of it. These each-unique coins have various.. issues.. that don't photograph well and are more difficult to understand than lusterous fully struck choice and gem coins and vibrant..rainbows!
Fewer collectors prefer to take a loupe to worn surfaces, edge flaws, nicks and scratches, hairlines, spots, etc
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I think all the hype surrounding the 1804 Bust Dollars has done quite a bit to put that series in the eye of the public.
When I started contemplating adding earlier issues to my completed 20th Century Type set, the design of the FH dollar really intrigued me for some reason. The story of how one came to be in my possession is here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/872097/a-cool-coin-with-a-cool-story-1795-fh-dollar
Compared to many coins that have come and gone, this one always remains interesting and I always smile when I have a chance to dig it out of the SDB and enjoy it.
Thus the INTENTIONAL use of quotes.
They get a lot of respect, they are great original US dollars, not as great as the Continental dollar but still up there. I have owned several.
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I would like a nice mid-grade Flowing Hair Dollar.
I bought one when I first started collecting, uncertified (mistake!). Didn't see one I liked for a long time, that was in my price range. Then this one popped up on the BST, I waffled for days until several members whose opinions I respect made posts along the lines of "When is someone going to buy this thing?" So I did.
I would be intrigued here by what people call "midgrade"' for FH $1. By MY definition midgrade is VF30 - XF40. What are the people on this post talking about?
The OP talks about midgrade FH $1 being comparable to choice seated liberty quarters in price. Last I heard tell, the definition of "choice" was MS63. Looking at the PCGS price guide, generic "No Motto" MS63 seated libs are $800, while "With Motto" in MS63 they are $625. Something tells me that if you or I could buy a 1795 VF30 - XF40 FH $1 for between $625 - $800 there would be a LOT of takers. According to the PCGS price guide a 3 Leaves 1795 $1 in G4 will run you $2,150, while a VF30 will cost $6,850 and an XF40 will cost $12,500. Heck the price for a generic "With Motto" LS quarter in MS67+ is $6,500, so even a screaming ultra gem LS quarter is less than a 1795 VF30 FH $1.
I realize that TS was being somewhat hyperbolic about the cost of a FH $1 in relation to LSQ, but again, I'd like to know what midgrade is meant by people on the boards with regards to FH $1.
With regard to respect, I think the FH $1's are COOL. I prefer the DBHE design aesthetically, but the FH is a neat design too.
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Kinda like...
Very nice example!
A really great and desirable coin..... I keep hoping to find one in some of the old ruins in this area...(This part of the country was settled in the late 1600's) We have a deep colonial history here and I do research on old properties and homes. I cannot imagine the thrill if - and when - I find one of these.....(ah yes - confidence)
Cheers, RickO
I've been wondering the same thing. Price wise, it seems FH dollars get quite a bit of respect relative to the LSQ.
For more specifics, if a mid-grade flowing hair has the same or higher price than a choice LSQ, what is a respectable price for a mid-grade dollar against a LSQ?
I think FH1$s are great, historical coins. There needs to be more specifics for the comparison.
I wouldn't say that the Flowing Hair Silver Dollars 1794-5 "get no respect." I am a collector, researcher, author, and Professional Numismatist specializing in the early United States Silver Dollars 1794-1803. As a Professional Numismatist I have sold over 15 Flowing Hair Dollars in the last 15 months, ranging in grade from Good to PCGS AU58, and ranging in price from $2,500 to $55,000 each. I've sold a number of rare 1795 FH die marriages in the past 5-10 years for six figure prices. I currently would have want lists for multiple FH Dollars that are extremely hard to fill.
This 1795 Flowing Hair Silver Dollar is graded PCGS AU58 and sold for over $50,000 in late 2015. It was from the Warren Miller Collection which Andy Lustig and I purchased in October 2015. It is ex. Atwater-Stirling, and we had multiple orders for this coin when it was first offered for sale.
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Photo courtesy of PCGS, Warren Miller, and W. David Perkins.
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I agree with @Sonorandesertrat that "They are just too expensive for most collectors."
Most collectors want or can afford only one example of the Flowing Hair Dollar, and almost all purchase a 1795 dated FH $1 as the 1794 FH Dollars are very expensive (costing six to seven figures). I believe that many collectors would love to have an example of a Flowing Hair Dollar, but the relatively high prices that 1795 FH Dollars realize in the marketplace keeps many collectors from acquiring one. In addition, finding the right example for the grade and condition desired can be challenging. For example, how many FH Dollars graded F15 look like @topstuff's FY Dollar IN PCGS F15 (above)? It takes time to find a coin with the eye appeal and quality this coin has, and you usually have to be ready to pay a premium price to acquire a coin like this, whether by private sale or at auction.
Advanced early dollar Type Collectors sometimes want two examples of Flowing Hair Dollar Types, opting for one example with the "Two Leaves" (under the eagle's wings) Reverse Type, and one with the "Three Leaves" Reverse. The Atwater-Stirling-Miller 1795 FH Dollar above has Two Leaves under each of the eagle's wings. The coin below that I sold in 2014 had Three Leaves under each wing and was graded PCGS XF45 CAC.
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Photo courtesy of PCGS and W. David Perkins
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There are 21 different die marriages currently known for 1795 Flowing Hair Dollars. I know a number of collectors collecting the 1795 FH Dollars by die marriage. I collected the FH Dollars of 1795 by die marriage for years as a collector, and had a number of the R-7 and R-8 die marriages. I sold these over the years to collectors like Warren Miller (who managed to own all of the 1795 FH die marriages at one time as well as all of the 118 known at the time for early dollars 1794 to 1803!) and Dr. Hesselgesser.
I also know of two collectors that are collecting the many different 1795 FH "Heads of Liberty."
I'll have a number of Flowing Hair Dollars at my Table 818 at Baltimore, and also at Table 910 at Central States if anyone would like to stop by and look. I will also have dozens of Draped Bust Dollars. These coins are also photographed and posted on my website (link below).
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Interesting thread. I've always wanted a Flowing Hair Dollar, but have never (yet) stepped up to buy one. Love your example, Kaz.
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Always nice to get advice from knowledgeable members here. Congrats on the coin!
For me Flowing Hair Dollars are affordable until you hit EF. Trying to go beyond that grade to "a true AU" is very difficult. It seems that some of the more common die varieties do not come well struck. They lack hair detail in the highest points, which caused tthem to go from Mint State to EF fairly quickly.
I have one type piece in my collection in an EF-40 PCGS holder. There is enough luster in the protected areas to rate an EF-45, but the overall amount of design detail would never support an upgrade.
An yes, nice examples of these coins are too expensive to allow most of us to collect them by variety.
All the "veteran" collectors here remember how little respect early type received for decades....for years prices barely budged despite rises in the coin market.
I tried to sell this lustrous coin in the 1990s at the Westchester show for 11K with virtually no interest from buyers.
At that time I remember talking to Heritage about slabbed AU Chain cents for 31K, they had three in stock and were desperate to unload them, and a friend offered me a Continental Dollar MS62 fatty NGC holder for 13K which all seemed too rich for me.
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