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John Reich hired as Assistant Engraver

RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

This might be of interest to collectors of early U.S. coins.

(The number at upper left is the page number in the fair copy journal containing copies of letters from 1796-1837. The copies were made by Miss Ely at the Philadelphia Mint during 1895-96.)

Comments

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    carabonnaircarabonnair Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1 April 1807, but not an April Fool's prank!

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And sadly he never got raise beyond that $600 per year salary for the rest of his time at the mint. :/

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ten years without a pay raise, and at a common laborer's salary. Shameful.

    Reich did most of the design work and got none of the rewards. He quit in disgust in 1817.

    If the untalented, resentful, jealous chief engraver, Robert Scot, had been forced to retire (as he should have been) Reich might have lasted longer.
    Lance.

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    On what do you base your claims about Scot? Untalented? Hardly. Resentful, jealous? Henry Voigt was never forced to retire, despite the fact that when Adam Eckfeldt was promoted to replace Voigt after death, it was not necessary to hire an assistant to fill Eckfeldt's role as asst. coiner.

    Who did get a raise in the first decades? Compare salaries of all the officers of the mint and you will see that Reich was not alone.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2017 1:53PM

    I agree that Scott had talent. I have admired his Draped Bust design since I became a more serious collector back in the mid 1960. I also admire his early Capped Bust designs for the gold coinage.

    The trouble is Scott stayed around too long. His last new works, the Matron Head large Cent and more especially the Capped Bust Quarter Eagle from 1821 to 1827, ranged from dull and unattractive to ugly.

    This is an ugly coin shot an angle to make it look as good as possible.


    Of course I have to admit that Scott's successor, William Kneass, came up with unattractive ladies too.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2017 2:04PM

    There has been a lot written on the topic. Here's are are two snippets from The Numismatist (March 2011):

    One of the biggest stumbling blocks (facing the Mint) was Robert Scot, a watchmaker and bank note engraver whose self-taught die-engraving talents were pedestrian at best. Scot, a native of Edinburgh, Scotland, who had arrived in America in 1778, was appointed U.S. Mint chief engraver in 1793. An article published in 1882 or 1883 tells us that, “at the time of his appointment, he seems to have been turning the downhill of life [he was 49!]. He is remembered as rather under size …” Scot’s professional accomplishments before his Mint appointment were in the realm of engraving plates for paper money during the American Revolution and beyond.

    Scot made it unbearable for anyone hired to assist him. The diminutive engraver feared competition and fought every effort of Mint Director Henry De Saussure to take on another engraver. At the end of 1794, however, John Smith Gardner was appointed as Scot’s assistant. Gardner’s tenure lasted only 16 months; it is assumed that Scot’s jealousy and harassment chased him away.

    Author Michael E. Marotta writes that “Scot’s inability to surpass European standards made his job a target for Congress. Numismatic historians such as Walter Breen, Donald Taxay and Q. David Bowers have all agreed that Scot’s tenure was a poor beginning for the U.S. Mint. It may be true, but the fact remains that when he was appointed, Scot was the only artist in America who could do the work."

    Reich was hired at $600 per year, half of Scot’s salary. His pay was about two-thirds that of his contemporary assistant engravers. In fact, it was on par with that of a common laborer of the time.

    The poorly paid Reich became the de facto chief engraver, performing most of the work without the accompanying compensation or prestige.

    U.S. MINT EMPLOYEES worked long days without vacation or sick time. As a Mint assistant engraver, John Reich received about the same salary as a common laborer in 1807.

    He started work on April 1, 1807, and began cutting dies for his first Capped Bust coins the very next day. Reich’s biggest headache, 62-year-old Scot, was still the official chief engraver, despite his failing eyesight. Scot’s continued jealousy— combined with his mediocre abilities—made Reich’s tenure at the Mint quite unpleasant. Considering how much Mint Director Patterson wanted to hire Reich, it seems curious that Scot was not asked to retire or forced to step down.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the notice of Scott's demise.

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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm struck by the fact that the US President was notified. Shows you how small the government was back then!

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    lkeigwin,

    Lots of hearsay in those articles! I wish original sources were mentioned. How would anyone know decades later that Scot fought with mint director deSaussure, who had an extremely short tenure as director? Anyone who wrote that Gardiner was chased away by Scot's jealousy is unfamiliar with the record. I need to re-read Bill Nyberg's excellent book to refresh my memory in order to quote specifics.

    I am unaware of any contemporary record which claims that Scot was a target for congressional leaders any more than the other mint officers, and his inability to surpass European standards left him with something in common with European engravers who were also unable to surpass their standards.

    How do we know that Reich became the de facto chief engraver? If Scot was so incompetent, how was he able to carry on after Reich left?

    I also had a negative view of Scot when I was active, formed by reading such material as you quote. If you haven't yet read Nyberg, it is highly recommended.

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    GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "...to be paid quarter yearly from the date hereof."

    Paid only 4 times a year. Tough to live paycheck to paycheck back then!

    @bjh98a , welcome! I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to discussions like these!

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure you're right that my impressions have been formed by what I've read. I admit to bias about John Reich.

    I haven't read Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty so maybe I would feel differently. I'll have to add it to my list.

    Always nice to get another perspective.
    Lance.

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    dengadenga Posts: 903 ✭✭✭

    Some general points, based on Mint documents:

    1) Reich left in 1817 because his eyesight had perceptibly failed;
    one of the dies for a War of 1812 medal was so badly done that
    it was called a caricature. I suspect that he did the new 1816 cent
    dies, not Scot.

    2) There is no evidence that Scot treated subordinates with anything.
    but courtesy

    3) Scot was a competent engraver as has been shown by William
    Nyberg in his well-researched book on Scot.

    4) There were other assistant engravers before and after Reich (notably
    Henry Starr) but they worked only as needed, not on a regular basis.

    5) I know of no pressure on Scot by Congress although it is true that
    the legislators would not increase his salary despite requests to do so.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2017 4:09PM

    @TommyType said:
    I'm struck by the fact that the US President was notified. Shows you how small the government was back then!

    The President is still notified when anyone holding an office subject to Presidential appointment experiences some major problem, resigns, or dies. The President president pro tempore of the Senate is notified with regard to anyone subject to Senate approval.

    To Clear Some Confusion:
    Until after about 1870 in US usage, the person who cut dies from a design was a "die-sinker." An "engraver" prepared low relief steel or copper plate engravings for stamps, stationary and similar items. In normal use, a sculptor prepared a model in relief, and the die-sinker cut the die. An assistant or apprentice die-sinker might do the hardening, tempering and copying. The people we commonly call "Engraver of the Mint" (and who had that title) were really die-sinkers and/or sculptors. To make this clearer, James Longacre was deliberately hired as an "engraver." His lack of skill as a die-sinker was fully known to Mint and treasury officials. It was expected he would supervise production of working dies and their touch-up. It was expected that if new designs were needed for coins, a sculptor would make the models and they would be reduced on the portrait lathe. When new designs were needed, Longacre did not have experience with the portrait lathe, and the Mint refused to hire a temporary assistant to help. It was a tough learning experience for Longacre and the Mint. The various later Assistant Engravers were all sculptors and familiar with making reductions.

    Reich's low pay was because his job did not officially include cutting new design dies.

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    dengadenga Posts: 903 ✭✭✭

    @TommyType said:
    I'm struck by the fact that the US President was notified. Shows you how small the government was back then!

    Actually the direct contact with the president did not last much
    longer. In August 1825 President John Quincy Adams ordered
    that any communications from the Mint were to be addressed
    to the Treasury. This, then, is the date that the Mint became part
    of the Treasury and was no longer a semi-independent agency.

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2017 4:56PM

    I thought the Coinage Act of 1873 made the Mint part of the Treasury when the director's office was moved to Washington. Or was this just a formality for something that had been in place decades earlier?
    Lance.

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    hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great thread!

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    sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hchcoin said:
    Great thread!

    Agree. Nothing to contribute but soaking it all in.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

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    BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven't seen the monograph by Stewart Witham on John Reich mentioned here yet. It is the single most important work on Reich's life available to us at this time. I would strongly recommend finding one of these scarce monographs to read.

    Johann Matthaus Reich, also know as John Reich by Stewart Witham, self published 1994.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I included the text of the original drafts of these letters in my biography of Robert Scot, and I will post images of these.

    I can't find the first letter, it might take a few days

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ikeigwin,

    I realize your comments below are secondary information, and others have fallen into this trap, but much of it is absolutely false, frankly it is unfounded garbage. I will post contemporary quotes and facts to refute these claims.

    There has been much new information on Robert Scot, from archival sources, published in the John Reich Journal, and in my book Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty.

    There has been a lot written on the topic. Here's are are two snippets from The Numismatist (March 2011):

    One of the biggest stumbling blocks (facing the Mint) was Robert Scot, a watchmaker and bank note engraver whose self-taught die-engraving talents were pedestrian at best. Scot, a native of Edinburgh, Scotland, who had arrived in America in 1778, was appointed U.S. Mint chief engraver in 1793. An article published in 1882 or 1883 tells us that, “at the time of his appointment, he seems to have been turning the downhill of life [he was 49!]. He is remembered as rather under size …” Scot’s professional accomplishments before his Mint appointment were in the realm of engraving plates for paper money during the American Revolution and beyond.
    Scot made it unbearable for anyone hired to assist him. The diminutive engraver feared competition and fought every effort of Mint Director Henry De Saussure to take on another engraver. At the end of 1794, however, John Smith Gardner was appointed as Scot’s assistant. Gardner’s tenure lasted only 16 months; it is assumed that Scot’s jealousy and harassment chased him away.
    Author Michael E. Marotta writes that “Scot’s inability to surpass European standards made his job a target for Congress. Numismatic historians such as Walter Breen, Donald Taxay and Q. David Bowers have all agreed that Scot’s tenure was a poor beginning for the U.S. Mint. It may be true, but the fact remains that when he was appointed, Scot was the only artist in America who could do the work."
    Reich was hired at $600 per year, half of Scot’s salary. His pay was about two-thirds that of his contemporary assistant engravers. In fact, it was on par with that of a common laborer of the time.
    The poorly paid Reich became the de facto chief engraver, performing most of the work without the accompanying compensation or prestige.
    U.S. MINT EMPLOYEES worked long days without vacation or sick time. As a Mint assistant engraver, John Reich received about the same salary as a common laborer in 1807.
    He started work on April 1, 1807, and began cutting dies for his first Capped Bust coins the very next day. Reich’s biggest headache, 62-year-old Scot, was still the official chief engraver, despite his failing eyesight. Scot’s continued jealousy— combined with his mediocre abilities—made Reich’s tenure at the Mint quite unpleasant. Considering how much Mint Director Patterson wanted to hire Reich, it seems curious that Scot was not asked to retire or forced to step down.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some Scot bashing. Some Kneass bashing. And so to round out the playing field, everyone has their critics. Reich was no exception.

    Samuel Moore, Director of the Mint 1824-1835, thought that the Reich Capped Bust Left design, circa 1807, was an unfit emblem of Liberty, and effectively worked towards its demise. Moore invoked the thoughts of President Jefferson, who described the Capped Bust Left as an emblem more fit for emancipated slaves.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reich was hired at $600 per year, half of Scot’s salary. His pay was about two-thirds that of his contemporary assistant engravers. In fact, it was on par with that of a common laborer of the time.
    And sadly he never got raise beyond that $600 per year salary for the rest of his time at the mint.

    I agree $600 per year was too low of a salary for John Reich's skills. However, Reich received substantial supplementary income for federal work at the Mint, and some years Reich's total federal income exceeded Robert Scot's yearly salary of $1200 (1815 Hull naval medal $800+$600 salary = $1400). Decatur medal 1817 $400, Madison peace medals 1814 $1000 + third federal issue of embossed stamp dies (56 dies, unknown amount). Lots of other work during this period that probably put his average income at a similar level to Scot's salary.

    It should be note that Scot also took some additional work during his Mint employment, but the amount paid to him was ALWAYS less that what Reich was paid. Evidently, Reich more than made up for his low salary.

    Also, Mint workers were paid .50 to $1.80 per day (in 1795), so $600 per year was above a "common laborer," the adult males at the Mint were paid $1.00 to $1.80 per day (the Mint worked six days/week, with the 4th July and Christmas as holiday time off).

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One of the biggest stumbling blocks (facing the Mint) was Robert Scot, a watchmaker and bank note engraver whose self-taught die-engraving talents were pedestrian at best. Scot, a native of Edinburgh, Scotland, who had arrived in America in 1778

    Robert Scot did begin his career as a watchmaker/clockmaker in Canongate (annexed to Edinburgh in 1856). However, new information from Edinburgh court records indicate Robert Scot had started an engraving/modelling partnership at age 18 (article to follow). Scot was also professionally trained as an engraver in Edinburgh, mostly copperplate line engraving. Scot had experience with medals and seals prior to his Mint employment, so it was not all "flatwork" as others have written. Scot was first known to be in the American Colonies in January of 1775.

    Contemporary assessments of Robert Scot's work differ from "pedestrian at best."

    Thomas Jefferson, October 21, 1780 (regarding a medal) "the workmanship was extraordinarily good."

    George Turner, secretary of the Society of the Cincinnati, October 28, 1784, regarding the membership diploma, "Mr. Scott, who is the only engraver, perhaps, on the Continent, that can do it justice."

    Publisher Thomas Dobson, April, 1788, "the copperplates are accurately engraved by Scott, and in the opinion of judges are superior in elegance to those executed in London." Incidentally, this comment was for Natural Philosophy, including the largest number (25) of scientific illustrations published in America at the time, and raised the bar to a new level for American scientific illustrations.

    Other contemporary comments place Scot as the best engraver in the United States at the time. Scot was the most sought after engraver by officers of the Continental Army, his work included a magnificent illustration of the decisive battle of the American Revolution - the Siege of Yorktown.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2017 8:54AM

    ` It may be true, but the fact remains that when he was appointed, Scot was the only artist in America who could do the work."

    Actually, there were at least 12 full-time engravers in Philadelphia in November, 1793. However Scot was the best of the survivors of yellow fever, and he was well known for many years, and did work for, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and David Rittenhouse.

    Scot made it unbearable for anyone hired to assist him. The diminutive engraver feared competition and fought every effort of Mint Director Henry De Saussure to take on another engraver. At the end of 1794, however, John Smith Gardner was appointed as Scot’s assistant. Gardner’s tenure lasted only 16 months; it is assumed that Scot’s jealousy and harassment chased him away. Author Michael E. Marotta writes that “Scot’s inability to surpass European standards made his job a target for Congress. Numismatic historians such as Walter Breen, Donald Taxay and Q. David Bowers have all agreed that Scot’s tenure was a poor beginning for the U.S. Mint. It may be true, but the fact remains that when he was appointed, Scot was the only artist in America who could do the work."

    The above is baseless speculation. Robert Scot trained at least five apprentices prior to his Mint employment, the most of any engraver of the time period, that I found in 10 years of research. Scot provided the training for them to launch their own careers and to eventually collaborate and compete with Scot - hardly a person who is prone to jealousy.

    John Smith Gardner had no recorded engraving work before or after his Mint employment, and was actually seeking non-engraving work. There is absolutely no evidence that Gardner had the ability to engrave original dies. There is no evidence of "harassment." Scot himself suggested to Congress that an assistant engraver would be needed at times, "that demand may be greater than 'tis possible for me to supply with my own industry; and no doubt it will sometimes be the case, which makes it necessary on some occasions to be allowed an assistant." No, Scot did not "fought every effort" to hire another engraver - he formally requested engraving help to Congress.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stewart Witham's biography of John Reich is excellent. He did leave out a few key items, he quoted some of Reich's employment letter, but left out, "And the said John Reich covenants and engages to execute any work, in the line of his profession, which may be required of him, either by the Director, or by the Chief Engraver,"

    John Reich was an excellent engraver, in my opinion the best engraver of US medals of his era.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭

    They might not have got paid much, but they sure had excellent handwriting skill.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While I have been thoroughly intrigued by the discussion and history of this thread, I - much like TopographicOceans - am amazed at the penmanship of the letter writers. Truly a skill that has not only degenerated over the centuries, but has even been dropped from curriculum's in schools recently. Such writing is almost an art form.... Cheers, RickO

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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2017 7:02AM

    On a similar note, it should be disclosed publically that Roger plainly has kept the legible correspondence from the era to himself for transcription. Most of the stuff he sends me from Mint Directors like J. R. Snowden and Robert Patterson look like spaghetti on meth. ;)

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Numismatic historians such as Walter Breen, Donald Taxay and Q. David Bowers have all agreed that Scot’s tenure was a poor beginning for the U.S.

    as I live and breath, the name of Walter Breen has been treated kindly. thank you, Lance.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: "Moore invoked the thoughts of President Jefferson, who described the Capped Bust Left as an emblem more fit for emancipated slaves."

    Jefferson, in his reply to Moore's inquiry about the Pileus and what was intended for the "figure emblematic of Liberty," wrote:

    Monticello,
    March 3, 1825.
    Sir,
    My memory is so entirely in default that I do not remember a single circumstance respecting the devices on our coins except that someone having proposed to put General Washington’s head on them it was entirely objected to, and the head of Liberty adopted – but whether with or without the Pileus I do not remember: but surely it ought to be without it, for we are not emancipated slaves. I have delayed answering your letter until I could examine my papers, but I find not a scrip there relating to it, with my regrets that I can give you no information on the subject of your letter of Feb. 14. Accept the assurance of my great esteem and respect.
    [TH: J.]

    [Original: Philadelphia Historical Society Collection; fair copy NARA.]

    The headdress on Reich's Liberty was taken from popular dress of the time, and not intended to represent Liberty - per Adam Eckfeldt and Samuel Moore.

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    Can anyone on this post upload an image (drawing, painting, vignette - anything) of John Reich?

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Love the cursive and the history, thanks @RogerB :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CustomCoinClocks said:
    Can anyone on this post upload an image (drawing, painting, vignette - anything) of John Reich?

    No, to my knowledge none exist.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
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    RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something related that I recently posted - one of a handful of original Washington Sansom medals. A gift of one of these was what allegedly reminded Jefferson about Reich and ultimately got him that appointment:


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    German-Americans like Reich were later immigrants. I was wondering with the 500th anniversary of Luther's theses, why it took so long for them to enter the new world.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great thread. My knowledge of engravers, mint history, etc is miniscule but I did learn a new word today: "Pileus."
    Thanks Mr. Jefferson and RB.

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    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2017 7:11PM

    @dpoole said:
    On a similar note, it should be disclosed publically that Roger plainly has kept the legible correspondence from the era to himself for transcription. Most of the stuff he sends me from Mint Directors like J. R. Snowden and Robert Patterson look like spaghetti on meth. ;)

    RWB has worked through his share of illegible documents, I am sure!

    Btw, this is a great thread and so encouraging to see all the references to original documents.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dpoole said:
    On a similar note, it should be disclosed publicly that Roger plainly has kept the legible correspondence from the era to himself for transcription. Most of the stuff he sends me from Mint Directors like J. R. Snowden and Robert Patterson look like spaghetti on meth. ;)

    Ahhhh! The secret is out. In reality the early mint directors used spaghetti instead of goose quill pens. They ran a very parsimonious operation and goose quills were considered too expensive for all but the most important letters. Another problem was that if the workmen got hungry, they would "borrow" the director's spaghetti pens and cook them for their lunch (or 'dinner' as they called it). Leftovers were returned, and sometimes were not completely dry when the next letter was to be written.

    Also, the Philadelphia Mint was decorated with macaroni art. Spaghetti was used for the borders and horizon in landscapes. :)

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