Dipping heavily and colorfully toned coins in acetone..................
Desert Moon
Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
Does it remove any of the toning? I do a quick dip in acetone to remove surface 'mist', 'grunge', 'gunk' etc. but not the toning. Anyone else have an experience where toning was removed in an acetone dip? Just checking.......
Thanks, SH
My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
0
Comments
It won't hurt genuine toning. But it will take off all organic contaminants (accumulated oils, e.g.) and may tweak the appearance
PCGS refused to cross a 20c piece in an old ANACS holder. Said it was AT. I cracked it and gave it an acetone bath. All the applied, artificial toning rinsed off. Smart guys at PCGS.
Lance.
In that case, AT was added toning.
This confuses my semi educated knowledge of coins.
I was under the impression that any sort of dipping or cleaning or alteration of ANY kind was "cleaning" or tampering with originality.
This is not an attack on anyone at all. Just a request for information.
It seems like doctoring, the talk of cleaning and dipping coins, or the ms70 stuff I hear about. Every time I read or hear about some cleaning or dip my jaw drops in horror, lol. I even saw a "cleaning coins" thread with pics of tumblers and stuff once and I almost replied until I realized it was metal detecting finds. I slowly backed out of that area like a guy who just went into the wrong bar.
So what gives? Are people secretly cleaning things in an "acceptable " way?
Is this sneaky?
I saw that even pcgs has "restoration" type of cleaning service. Is this then noted on the holder, making it "Genuine" ?
The mad scientist in me experimented with baking coins and cleaning them in my early early collecting days, to see what the effects were and how to spot tampering.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Absolutely nothing wrong with using acetone on coins. It has zero effect on metal. So all you're doing is removing potentially harmful organic stuff (PVC, e.g.) or removing unsightly things (nail polish, grime, gum, etc.).
Even the TPG's have no qualms about acetone. It is probably their most commonly used treatment for restoration.
As for dipping (with an acid-based dip, like eZ-est, nee Jewelluster) it too is an acceptable practice to many but not all collectors. And the TPG's are forgiving about its use, though it can be misused/overdone and net grading can result from the negative effect.
CAC appears to be okay with dipping to the extent that luster is not affected. (This is a personal observation and not something CAC has ever said. CAC is very big on originality but they will sticker flashy, unimpaired coins that have been dipped, it seems to me.)
Dipping -- not acetone -- is a controversial topic and folks get worked up about it. It is also likely true that a great majority of classic coins have been dipped at least once in their past, like it or not.
Lance.
Well said lkeigwin
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Do those acetone dips need to be a solution other than the typical OTC/ big box store acetone?
Lance, Im glad to hear your take on what you think about CAC's dipping policy. I imagine that you're mostly refering to it with CBH's in mind. It's been a puzzle to me, quite lately in fact, how some of those "flashy" Bust Halves get stickered considering the emphasis CAC seems to attach to original surfaces, etc. I was almost coming to the conclusion, against my intuition, that maybe, just somehow, some of those 200 year old coins look like that naturally. I'll go with your thinking on the subject. I can't imagine that there are too many people other than yourself who would be as knowledgeable about it. Thanks.
Thanks Lance,
You confirmed what I thought as well, always good to get other opinions.
Best, SH
I have seen color removed with acetone when it is part of a PVC gel. Otherwise if toning is removed, it is not part of the metal complex but something like watercolors painted on.
anything I buy raw gets an acetone soak for several hours.
A forum member asked for some advice on acetone. I'm no more of an expert than plenty of guys here. But I'll share what I sent him:
First, it is a good idea to experiment on common coins. It will give you confidence that you're not going to hurt a valuable one.
Buy pure acetone. Never drug store nail polish remover. Just the stuff you can get at a good hardware store.
Always use a glass dish or jar, never plastic. Acetone dissolves plastic. A top to seal it is smart (acetone evaporates quickly). A jelly jar or canning jar works great.
Make sure you have good ventilation. The smell is overpowering and probably noxious. Acetone is also flammable. Don't smoke or use it around open flames.
It won't harm your skin, though it will dry it out and cool it very quickly. Women used acetone for decades to remove nail polish.
You can leave a coin in acetone for as long as you like. I've accidentally left coins in it for weeks.
Normally it doesn't take long to remove what's on the coin. If you're just removing PVC haze, e.g., a few minutes is all that's needed. If you have some old, hard substance it may take a lot longer. And sometimes it simply won't work. It is only so powerful. Hundred year old, crusty grime is pretty tough stuff.
There are different opinions on what should be done after application. Some guys say do nothing. The acetone will evaporate completely. Others believe in a final dip of distilled water. Some guys use alcohol last. Me? I rinse it with tap water and then rinse it with distilled water and let it air dry or gently dab it with a soft, clean towel. Never had a problem with that process.
It is important that the last dip in acetone be free of contaminants. So if you soaked the coin to take off something it is possible, when you remove it, that some dissolved contaminant can remain on the coin. And maybe not appear until much time has elapsed. Then you'll notice spotting.
So always have at least two acetone dips with the last one perfectly clean and pure.
Somewhere along the line you will hear someone say "don't use acetone on copper!" I know I felt that way once when I saw mostly red and RB cents change color a little. Scientifically, it's nonsense. Acetone does nothing to metal. But folks forget that circulated coins acquire substances on the surface from fingers, whatever's in the air, etc. And those substances give coins a certain appearance, maybe nice, maybe not. Acetone will remove finger oils, smoke, even coin care treatment (like Blue Ribbon or CoinCare). Some coins may appear "dried-out".
I like to use coin care treatment for those I keep raw. It helps protect them and improves their appearance. It is safe and easily removed, FWIW.
To give you an idea of just how popular and safe acetone is you will sometime hear how collectors of modern silver coins, like ASE's, treat every spanking new coin from the Mint with acetone. They believe it will prevent the milk spots that were so troublesome in the recent past. They do this whether they intend to keep them raw or have them graded.
Lance.
Good info thanks, speaking of ASE milk spots, will it remove them after they appear?
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
Ikeigwin - you are a wonderful source of coin information!
No. Sorry. They're permanent.
Lance.
How about using our host conservation service? Is that something that is part of that or are they like you said, permanent. Thanks again for sharing
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
Permanent is permanent.
At one point, not too many years ago, PCGS offered a cash reward for anyone who could find a way to rescue these poor milk-spotted coins. Nothing ever came of it.
Lance.
A Bust collector at a recent show. showed me a PCGS certified XF Bust coin worth in the thousands, a rare variety. So I asked him about the slightly dark appearance on the surfaces and suggested acetone or other similar non-acidic dip and he said, no, the little bit of grease would come off resulting in a no grade. So clearly there are coins you do not touch and could lose a crusty surface with any dip. A local dealer told me he uses all the well known dips and gets good results, but he knows what he is doing. Sometimes a coin may look ok then a little dip and the env. damage becomes evident, so you get dullness instead of the wanted luster. I have been using Conserv which was advertised in CDN for a while which does not affect toning and brings out luster, etc.. The company owner said that a West coast company was buying it in large quantity. I'm sure every conservation department wants all the best products for their work. I just got tired of no grades for "residue" or pvc, so dip everything in acetone more or less.
Thanks for the reminder! I forgot I have some colorized ASE's soaking in acetone.
As was stated above, some people say, never clean a coin, even with acetone.
However, as was also stated above, acetone removes the surface contaminants from the surface of the coin.
If a bird relieves itself as you drive your brand-new car off the lot, do you clean off the spot or leave it on the car?
The justification for using acetone follows similar logic.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Am I the only one who finds the comments and knowledge on this website exhilarating?!
To me...This stuff is genuinely awesome and is more entertaining than movies, tv, concerts, and interacting with 90% of humans.
Sincere gratitude to everyone who shared, shares, and teaches here. You folks are GREAT!
Thanks a million,
Rocco
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
What Rich U said, total thumbs up!
Best, SH
The spots can be removed with gasoline and steel wool.
Lance has posted a detailed account of acetone on coins...Highly accurate and all YN's or new collectors should read this... Many misconceptions exist about dipping and acetone.... His posts dispel the myths ... Thanks Lance... Cheers, RickO
Excellent thread! Thanks, Lance. I know most of this, but a reminder never hurts.
Tom
Indeed a great thread.
My YouTube Channel