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What is this US coin from the 1700's?

jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

This is coming up for sale in a local auction. I mainly collect US gold, so know nothing about it. Any way to tell the date? Honestly, I don't even know what the denomination is. This is the only picture the auction company provided. Thanks!

Comments

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $1.00 and 1799 will probably never grade but still worth several hundred.

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2017 4:16PM

    such a great design...even with a lot of wear and tear.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me it is a problem coin to be avoided.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What makes it a problem coin, and not gradable?

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭

    I think it's a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Dollar
    with 7 stars left & 6 right. The obv was
    used to strike 6 different marriages
    beginning with B-7 BB-156, and ending
    with B-17 BB-164.
    It's a very interesting coin.

    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 768 ✭✭✭

    Assuming those aren't deep scratches at the bottom, could pass as AG.

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    What makes it a problem coin, and not gradable?

    The rim bumps don't help it. Have you seen the rev.?

    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2017 5:24PM

    As LindeDad said, it's apparently a 1799 draped bust dollar.
    All the writing on the holder is consistent with this, but it requires a holder is larger than 2" x 2", which is not the usual size.

    It's true - the obverse looks about the same for draped bust quarters, half dollars, and dollars.
    If the holder is a 2" x 2", it's not a dollar; it is a half dollar.
    The staple size suggests this is a 2" x 2".

    The obverse grade is roughly AG-3.
    I wouldn't bid on it without seeing the reverse, as it could be a total disaster.
    But if you are going to the auction anyway, you can see the reverse.

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭

    No half dollars, or quarters were made
    dated 1799.

    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2017 5:45PM

    @LoveMyLiberty said:
    No half dollars, or quarters were made
    dated 1799.

    Good point. Also true for 1798.
    So this implies it's a dollar, and the holder is 2.5" x 2.5".
    (2.5" is the standard size holder for these early dollars; 2" is standard for almost all other US coins).

  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably worth a 200 dollar bill. :)

  • Label says that the edge of the coin says one hundred cents, The question seems to be if it is a 1798 or 1799.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2017 7:03PM

    It looks like the 1799 B-7 (or similar B-5, B-6, B-10, B-12, B-17, etc.). On most 1798s the 8 is quite close to the bust. Here the 9 is farther from the bust, and the 1 is down below the curl and not that far from the rim.

    current auction coin

    from Hesselgesser Registry Set (by die variety).
    https://pcgs.com/SetRegistry/dollars/early-dollars-specialty-sets/early-dollars-die-variety-set-by-bolender-bowers-borckardt-circulation-strikes-1794-1803/alltimeset/24633
    Note: I just looked at each image and eliminated all the 1798s.
    Then this 1799 was the first one that was a close match.
    There are several 1799 B- varieties with the same or similar obverses, so it might be something other than B-7.
    But I'm confident it's a 1799.

    Looking at ebay Sold unslabbed 1799s, I found:

    • a nicer one (complete date) that sold for $712
    • and a worse one (graffiti, rims more gone) that sold for $428.

    So if the reverse is decent, it could be worth buying at $200 or so.
    Fakes also exist.

  • KellenCoinKellenCoin Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭

    1799 dollar

    YN Member of the ANA, ANS, NBS, EAC, C4, MCA, PNNA, CSNS, ILNA, TEC, and more!
    Always buying numismatic literature and sample slabs.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be interested in that coin at the right price. I must see it in hand before I could get serious about a price I could live with. Maaaan! That's classic Americana all the way.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't own any American coins from the 1700's but really want one, so might go see it at the local auction. I could ask for them to add a picture of the reverse, but don't want to attract more attention to it. All of the dates/varieties, etc confuse me with these early coins. If the reverse is about the same condition, what would a safe price be? $200-$300?

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can get an unslabbed 1798 large cent on ebay in similar condition for $75-150.
    ebay.com/sch/1798-Draped-Bust-Large-US-Cents/11947/bn_36838971/i.html?_dcat=11947&rt=nc

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't pay more than $250-300 assuming the reverse is mostly undamaged.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the reverse is the same condition, I would go $300... No more than that... Cheers, RickO

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2017 6:50AM

    @jwitten said:
    What makes it a problem coin, and not gradable?

    The obverse might get by for a grade, but I'm concerned about the flat spots to the left of the 12th star, by the last digit in the date and especially to the left of Ms. Liberty's hair ribbon. That might indicate that the coin has taken hits in those areas which has bent the planchet outward with the respect to the obverse which caused the toning to be worn off in those areas. If that is what has happened, it won't get a straight grade. Maybe that's why there is not photo of the reverse.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the complete list of coins being auction tomorrow. Anything jump out at anyone?
    1. Book of Miscellaneous Coins

    1. 2 Books of Penny’s not complete books 1909 to 1941

    2. Lincoln head penny book 1941 not complete

    3. Jefferson Nickels 1938 -1961 Complete

    4. Jefferson Nickels 1938-1961 Complete

    5. Jefferson Nickels 1938-1961 Complete

    6. Jefferson Nickels 1938-1961 Complete

    7. Coin Proof Sets 1956-1959-1970-1973

    8. 2 Cent coin 1864, 1 Cent Coin 1858, Dime 1859, 1 Cent 1795

    9. $10 Bill Youngstown Ohio 1929

    10. $10 Bill Zanesville Ohio 1929

    11. 2 $5 Red Seals, $5 Springfield Ohio 1929

    12. 3 $2 Silver Certificates 1928-1928-1963

    13. 10 Eisenhower Dollars 5-1971, 3-1972, 2-1973

    14. 1973 Bicentennial Commemorative Medal Sterling Silver

    15. 1964 2 Headed Quarter

    16. 3 Half Dollars 1829-1876-1912

    17. 250 Liberty Dimes

    18. 250 Liberty Dimes

    19. 250 Roosevelt Dimes

    20. 200 Roosevelt Dimes

    21. 155 Washington Quarters

    22. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    23. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    24. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    25. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    26. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    27. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    28. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    29. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    30. 20 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    31. 18 Kennedy Silver Half 1964

    32. 22 Franklin Half Dollars

    33. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    34. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    35. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    36. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    37. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    38. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    39. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    40. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    41. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    42. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    43. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    44. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    45. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    46. 20 Franklin Half Dollars

    47. 500 Wheat Pennies

    48. 500 Wheat Pennies

    49. 500 Wheat Pennies

    50. 500 Wheat Pennies

    51. 500 Wheat Pennies

    52. 128 Roosevelt Dimes

    53. 118 Mercury Dimes

    54. 53 -1943 Zinc Pennies, 33 Mercury Dimes, 1 Roll of Newer Pennies

    55. 3 Washington Quarters, 10 Standing Liberty Quarter, 9 Barber Quarters

    56. 17 Barber Half Dollars, 9 Barber Dimes

    57. 13 Uncirculated 1964 Kennedy Half Dollars

    58. 23 Walking Liberty Half Dollars, 12 Ben Franklin Half Dollars

    59. 32 Mercury Dimes, 147 Roosevelt Dimes

    60. 500 Wheat Pennies

    61. 500 Wheat Pennies

    62. 40 War Nickels

    63. 40 War Nickels

    64. 40 War Nickels

    65. 40 War Nickels

    66. 40 War Nickels

    67. 40 War Nickels

    68. 40 War Nickels

    69. 40 War Nickels

    70. 40 War Nickels

    71. 40 War Nickels

    72. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1981

    73. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1981

    74. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1976

    75. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1978

    76. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1981

    77. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    78. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    79. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1976

    80. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    81. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1978

    82. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1981

    83. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    84. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1982

    85. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1983

    86. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    87. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1977

    88. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1976

    89. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    90. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    91. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    92. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    93. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    94. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    95. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    96. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    97. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    98. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    99. 1OZ $50 Gold Liberty

    100. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    101. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1978

    102. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    103. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    104. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    105. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    106. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    107. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1981

    108. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1978

    109. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    110. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    111. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1984

    112. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    113. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1975

    114. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1976

    115. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    116. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    117. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    118. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    119. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    120. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    121. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1980

    122. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1979

    123. 1OZ Gold Canada 1980

    124. 1OZ Gold Krugerrand 1985

    125. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925-1926

    126. 10 Peace Dollars 1923

    127. 10 Peace Dollars 1923-1922

    128. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1926

    129. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1924-1925-1926

    130. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1924-1928

    131. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925-1926

    132. 10 Peace Dollars 1923

    133. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1924-1925

    134. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925-1926

    135. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1924-1925-1926

    136. 10 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925-1926

    137. 10 Morgan Dollars 1879-1884-1889-1900-1902-1921

    138. 10 Morgan Dollars 1884-1886-1880-1890-1891-1900-1901-1921

    139. 10 Morgan Dollars 1879-1883-1896-1902-1921

    140. 10 Morgan Dollars 1881-1884-1882-1900-1921

    141. 10 Morgan Dollars 1881-1882-1921

    142. 10 Morgan Dollars 1881-1882-1886-1899-1921

    143. 10 Morgan Dollars 1879-1882-1886-1887-1894-1900-1901-1902

    144. 10 Morgan Dollars 1878-1880-1882-1883-1921

    145. 10 Morgan Dollars 1881-1882-1887-1891-1900-1901

    146. 10 Morgan Dollars 1880-1886-1889-1900-1901-1902-1899

    147. 10 Morgan Dollars 1879-1881-1884-1889-1890-1896

    148. 10 Morgan Dollars 1880-1881-1882

    149. 10 Morgan Dollars 1882-1885-1921

    150. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1924-1926

    151. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925

    152. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923

    153. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923

    154. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1925

    155. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923

    156. 5 Peace Dollars 1922-1923-1935

    157. 5 Morgan Dollars, 2 Peace Dollars

    158. 5 Morgan Dollars 1880-1881-1904-1921

    159. 5 Morgan Dollars 1886-1896-1900-1921

    160. 5 Morgan 1881-1889-1879-1921

    161. 5 Peace Dollars 1923-1925-1934

    162. 5 Morgan Dollars 1886-1892-1896-1900-1921

    163. 5 Morgan Dollars 1879-1887-1884-1889-1921

    164. 5 Morgan Dollars 1887-1889-1884-1900

    165. 5 Morgan Dollars 1879-1882-1885-1889-1902

    166. 5 Morgan Dollars 1880-1881-1882-1886-1889

    167. 5 Morgan Dollars 1879-1881-1890

    168. 5 Morgan Dollars 1880-1881-1889

    169. 5 Morgan Dollars 1889-1890-1900-1904-1921

    170. US Trade Dollar 1877

    171. Heraldic Eagle 1799

    172. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

    173. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

    174. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

    175. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

    176. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

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    178. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

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    180. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars Uncirculated 1964

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    229. 20 Walking Liberty Half Dollars

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    269. 20 Walking Liberty Half Dollars

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    273. 20 Walking Liberty Half Dollars

    274. 20 Kennedy Half Dollars 40%

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  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is all about condition, unless you want to just price on bullion. Go to coin-inflation and see what the stuff is worth, then calculate what you would be willing to spend, then back-off buyers premium and sales tax (if it applies)

  • HiBuckyHiBucky Posts: 581 ✭✭✭

    NO MINT MARKS ON THE DOLLARS ? Something wrong here ..Can they be that much of a rookie auction when it comes to coins.?

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HiBucky said:
    NO MINT MARKS ON THE DOLLARS ? Something wrong here ..Can they be that much of a rookie auction when it comes to coins.?

    Yes, it is a local auction company who does land/estate sales. They are not coin specialists or anything, so I would not expect them to list mint marks.

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on my recent auction experience, even the bullion will go for too much! Neat coin, good luck!

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1799 sold for over $800 with buyers premium. Reverse looked pretty nice.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What did the reverse look like?

  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭✭

    auctions mostly are a waste of time and the feigned ignorance is charming to a degree on the auctioneers part. The coin in question bid low and walk if you dont win. I would play for 300 and pass any higher. You want to get out of it if you don't like the coin.

    The other lots if you want them dont go above half of what the lot will retail for , many times they get the hype going and these types of lots go for a lot more then retail dont catch the fever be a smart and wise and cautious buyer.

    If you get a good opportunity take it but keep in mind they do know exactly what they are selling dont let the amateur stuff fool you these guys make money by getting a higher hammer and will do that any way they can at times.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    What did the reverse look like?

    Similar to the front.. no major issues. Obverse looked a little better than pictures made it look. It was probably worth the price it went for, but I wanted to have a good enough price to turn a little profit. I ended up buying a bag of 22 Franklin halves for under melt. Don't usually deal with those, but didn't want to walk away empty handed.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In our area there are 4-5 vest pocket dealers/crooks who salt garbage/fakes, etc. into many of the local auctions. And, of course, the auctioneers disavow any knowledge. They generally also have deals with the auctioneers if anything goes too cheap, it gets "hammered" to the potted plant and you'll see it again in the next auction.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like the lots could of been an error coin searchers paradise. Sometimes you get lucky and an error coin or two slips by. Maybe not a famous one i.e. 55 DD cent, but a collectible none the less.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Looks like the lots could of been an error coin searchers paradise. Sometimes you get lucky and an error coin or two slips by. Maybe not a famous one i.e. 55 DD cent, but a collectible none the less.

    I didn't even bother looking at most of the coins before hand, just the few I went to bid on. The others were bagged up in lots, so would have been hard to cherry pick before hand.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $200 seems too low to me.

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