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Can anyone post some photos of iodined gold?
BryceM
Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've seen a few photos lately here and in other forums of toned gold coins that look a little "cooked" to my eye. Maybe it's legit leather-pouch toning, but maybe it's just an iodine job.
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2013 thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/806951/any-pictures-of-old-gold-that-have-been-atd-with-iodine/p1
Most of the images don't display, but some do, and the link to another thread in my post has an image.
I've posted a lot of toned gold. I would like to see a picture of one that has been treated, as no one has ever shown me one for sure. Most of my coins have been purchased already graded, but I've sent a few in for grading and they have all passed their test at least.
CuI is white to tan in color. Gold does not easily react with iodine.
Gold metal reacts with iodine, I2, to form the monohalide gold(I) chloride, AuI. Cheers, RickO
Drug store Iodine (not decolorized) colors gold. It is often used to imitate the maroon/orange genuine "skin" found on $20 Saints.
Yep. Gold monoiodide would be one product of soaking a gold coin in iodine. But the free compound it greenish-yellow and unstable in the presence of water. The copper reaction would occur quickly, and possibly the mixture of a fine film of the two compounds would imitate a natural coin surface.
I'll have to disagree on the "maroon/orange genuine 'skin' found on $20 Saints." Fresh DE of that era are mostly orange gold with some minor variations depending on annealing and 'whitening' of planchets.
PCGS made good on this one. Hats off to our host.
I'm color blind, would you agree with light-maroon/orange haze (skin)? It has been awhile since I have seen one of them.
I never knew the coins were soaked in the iodine, always thought a "carrier" was used. If used in too strong a concentration, I should think a grader could smell the iodine.
Bill, thanks for the photos. That's exactly what I was looking for. Did PCGS agree that it had been messed with? There's quite a bit of gold with this look floating around being highly praised for its original toning. Probably most of it is OK, but I wonder about some. (Yours actually looks pretty good to me). The reason I started the thread was a piece on a different forum that was being shown a couple of weeks ago. It was widely praised but looked like it had some help to me.
As for what happens, I'd guess the iodine is forming a complex with the copper (or maybe even the gold). The overall effect is probably more akin to a darkening stain than what happens when silver tones. Iodine is a big atom and has some funny chemistry.
Yes, PCGS agreed that the piece had been enhanced with Iodine. They cleaned it off and offered me the option of having the buy the coin or send it back to me a grade lower (from MS-63 to MS62) with a compensation check. I decided to let them buy the coin. It took about six to eight weeks, but PCGS made good on everything.
I really screwed up on this one. The coin looked "crusty' at most levels of magnification, but if you really looked hard with a 10 X, you could see that some of the color was on top of the surface and not IN the surface. I showed this piece to a couple of expert dealers before I approached PCGS, and agreed with my observations.
There is a member of another forum who loves iodine-like toned gold. Some of it is in slabs. I will not question his collection unless asked.
Is it me?
What are you doing over here?
You can't be lurking w/622 posts and three *'s. PM me at the other place tomorrow and I'll tell you ways to recognize the bad stuff.
Bill and everyone else who have seen these in hand -
Would it be appropriate to call iodined gold color as Cheeto orange? Or is it another shade of orange?
Best, SH
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Nope, different process.
To me, it is more maroon/burnt orange.
Definitely more brown/orange... or burnt orange as Ronyahski said above.... also, under magnification does not appear to be part of the surface as molecular tarnish on silver does.... Cheers, RickO
When it's done right, it resembles true "crusty gold" quite well.
All I will say about the source of the 1891-CC $5 gold that I posted is that I bought it from one of the top expert dealers in U.S. gold. That person either sold it knowing what was wrong or got fooled, which I believe is FAR more likely.
I would love for someone to do an actual experiment showing a before and after they treat a coin with iodine.
One of my buddies describes it as "Cheeto dust" coloring. That's more often than not fake.
There was a gold coin in the Long Beach Heritage auction with a very uniform burnt orange color. I'm not sure it's iodine but I'm quite sure it's AT. You can PM me for the lot number.
I am not a "coin doctor" and have only altered & colored coins for educational purposes in order to be able to detect surface alterations. In my limited experience, the color & intensity depends on the concentration of the iodine, the method used to apply it, the number of applications, and the "carrier" used to deposit it.
Would a soak in acetone remove the iodine from a gold coin?