Did it CAC?

Desert Moon

Hi Folks,
As we continue to have vibrant discussions on the topic of CAC, I wanted to show images of coins that I recently purchased and then sent in for CAC consideration and let everyone see if they can be JA and make a decision on a bean for each. Each of these coins below were handpicked by me after seeing in hand. I think my ability to grade and select pq coins for the grade are improving after a decade of seeing a lot O'coins. So here are the results for these six: 3 got green beans, 1 got a gold bean (only my 2nd), and 2 did not pass. Can you be JA and decide which coins were bean worthy, which were not, and which one exceeded CAC's expectations? Give it a shot.

I should state that with the exception of 1, all of them have no visible problems I can see that imply doctoring or mishandling that would result in CAC rejection. All have the right luster for their grade, no hairlines from a not too careful wipe, and none of them look artificially toned. What is not to like?

Well, you decide, have fun with this and see how hard it is to make these decisions on the great coins we all send in to CAC. After some opinions, I will post the results. If you reject one for consideration, please state why. Let's have a good discussion on this.

Best, SH

1630Boston

No
No
Gold
Green
Green
Green
??

Sunshine Rare Coins

No
Yes
No
Gold
Yes
Yes

grip

no
no
yes
yes
yes
gold

steveben

not (too little detail for 40)
green
gold
green
not (lacks detail)
green

Flatwoods

No
Green
Green
Gold
No
Green

roadrunner

All attractive coins. 1, 3 have secondary toning over very lightly cleaned/market acceptable surfaces. The MS62 bust quarter is beautiful and wonderful. But some light field lines and faint field luster suggest to me just a green bean, even if eye appeal is off the charts. To the market, probably worth 63 money any ways. From what I've seen, JA requires a coin with high eye appeal to also have the technical surfaces for the next grade higher to give the gold bean. He is not often swayed by eye appeal alone as the TPG's often are. The Fine15 capped bust dime does appear to have some remaining luster on it, not typical for a Fine coin. And if so, worth a premium as F15's don't usually show any luster these days.

No
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Gold (borderline 58 only due to missing field luster,really has 58+/unc details)

Boosibri

No
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Gold

shish

No VF-35
Yes
No 2nd Toning
Gold Super Eye-Appeal
Yes
Yes

roadrunner

Shish, you might be right on 2ndary toning for coin 3. Odd though that at the same time the left obverse looks too light, the entire reverse and right obverse seem original/dark enough. Then looking into the deep recesses of the obverse, such as around the curls and the incuse portion of the "Liberty" head band, those are very dark reddish/brown, like it took 50 or more years to get there. Would like to know if there's luster on that Fine15.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

No
Yes
No
GOLD!!!
Yes
Yes

cameonut2011

No - not enough detail even despite striking considerations; may have had an old cleaning
No - old cleaning
Gold - Looks AU
Green
Green
Green

topstuf

If you miss a guess, can you resubmit?

Sonorandesertrat

Of course, and in the spirit of today's TPGs, you may keep your old guess as a fallback.

messydesk

No
Yes
No
Yes - Gold
Yes
Yes

shish

Has anyone guessed correctly ?

roadrunner

@shish said:
Has anyone guessed correctly ?

That would be an advantage to anyone posting later than this. Messydesk, don't you want to identify the "gold" coin. That's the best part of this exercise. Would have been really challenging if we weren't told how many beaned....only that some stickered, including a gold. I'd love to see more of these CAC exercises in the future. The OP going 4/6 with one gold, is pretty darn good imo. That's a net 75% in my book (gold premium). Well done.

shish

You're right , i'll try to be patient .

topstuf

SpacehaydukeAC will not release the incorrect guesses.
Only resubmitting the necessary number of times will tell you.
This is good because UNTIL the guess is correct, you may call YOUR guess "to the best of my knowledge" which should release all responsibilities from fire, flood, or act of God.
maybe

Elcontador

If JA has an interest in buying a particular coin at the time he sees it, , he will sticker said coin. Period.

ms70

I really don't understand why any of those coins need a further review.

grip

So which one got the ...gold?. Did I miss the post?

steveben

@grip said:
So which one got the ...gold?. Did I miss the post?

no, you are early. you need to guess

logger7

Probably the Seated material was not beaned, or the Unc. Bust coin. If they see a reason for not beaning they don't. Plus you have the graders at cac, each has a perspective and grading system. How would Bill Shamhart see them? JA may be the finalizer but I would not discount the others there. When the stakes are high your chances diminish.

No Headlights

No
Gold
Yes
No
Yes
Yes

coinkat

I agree with MS70 in that these coins really do not need or warrant stickers. I especially like the Seated Dollars. All three hit the sweet spot in terms of having the look that I seek. And this look speaks for itself and any further need for confirmation of quality and grade goes against common sense. Are these Seated Dollars not terrific as they are? Please do not come back and tell me the market dictates that coins such as this require a CAC sticker... That is BS.

Moving on to the Bust Quarters and keeping an open mind... I can understand why these were submitted. Both coins are terrific and I would give both of these gold stickers from the image provided. Bust Quarters are held to a standard I will never understand... I submit these two as exhibit A and B to illustrate my point. The 1819, while not original, is worthy of a 50 and I see the other as a 63.

I suspect these comments will not be embraced by the New Order and I am fine with that.

topstuf

null

JohnnyCache

no
yes
yes
gold
no
yes

mannie gray

No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Gold
No

Baley

I'll guess
No
No
Green
Green
Gold
Green

KSorbo

The first two look cleaned and retoned, especially the first one, so I would guess they didn't sticker. I'm going for the gold on number 4 as it looks way too clean for a 62 and eye appeal is off the charts.

Regardless they all look fantastic and I'd be happy to take the ones that didn't bean off your hands

DollarAfterDollar

No
No
Yes
No
Yes
No.

sparky64

No
No
Green
Gold
Green
Green

Love that quarter, btw.
Thanks for this excercise.

Desert Moon

HI Folks,
Sorry for being absent during the day. Super busy at work and just got back after a 10 hour day. All great guesses and thanks for some of the nice comments. A few people have indeed nailed which one was gold. No one has yet guessed correctly for all of them. I agree that not having them in hand and grading from images can be misleading. I will repeat what I said above about in hand viewing - none of them have blatant evidence of too much cleaning, and all of the toning looks like it is original (or at least, MA), and luster in all cases is consistent or exceeds what is expected for 'average' for the grades. I can reveal the verdict now, or do you want to keep going? I will give some hints, the 1834 quarter was not the gold stickered one, only green - roadrunners assessment is probably right here, the tech grade was not enough to gold sticker it. The 1805 dime did get a green sticker. So that leaves 4 coins - two did not, two did, one of which, was gold. Anyone want to do further assessments? If so, I will not give the final answers quite yet.....

Best, SH

Desert Moon

BTW, at least on my Mac, these boards have a feature where when you click on the images, they open in another window, and one can then zoom in to get a larger image. For one of them that did not bean, the larger image may reveal what I think is the reason......

roadrunner

I'll still stick with the 1860-0 dollar as the goldie as it has the least amount "wrong" with it....as minor as it may be.

I've noted on GC that so many "toner" Moran dollars don't get CAC stickers when very eye appealing. The reason is due to a few excess marks. Infrequently do you see a grade bump from CAC on eye appeal when the technical surfaces lag. Trying to out-guess as to what their standards are is certainly not a 100% proposition....unless you only buy the most problem free, and conservatively graded coins. Super-duper CAC standards. While you can do that, you'd probably have to reject 80-90% of all very acceptable coins out there, to find the 10% CAC no brainers.

The photos you posted are already enlarged to 5X to 12X....TPG magnification or greater. If you can't see the flaws in these photos (short of hairlines) then how significant could they be on circ coins? Is CAC using more magnification at times?

coinkat

I suspect the 1846-o may have not met expectations. And I say that only after following your clue to take a closer look

coinkat

FWIW, I still like the 1846-o

roadrunner

For a 46-0 that's pretty close to original/wholesome. I could see it being low end due to being a bit weak on the field luster....even if cruel. The upper reverse field could be wiped since it appears a tad cloudy....only something an in-hand inspection would reveal.

I think the other 2 bust coins are less wholesome overall. Out of all 6 coins, I would have only considered the 1835 25c to be a no brainer CAC coin. Then the 1860-0 dollar because it has unc-ish details despite possibly being dipped at one time. Trying to out guess CAC on a batch of coins is pretty hard.

Desert Moon

@coinkat said:
I suspect the 1846-o may have not met expectations. And I say that only after following your clue to take a closer look

coinkat, what was did you see in the 46-O that gave you pause for CAC?

Best, SH

coinkat

Keep in mind that part of this exercise is not how we look at the coin but anticipating how someone else does. So having said that, in looking at the reverse maybe the fields are not as clean as one may expect for a sticker.

roadrunner

Just ask yourself, would I call the coin problem-free, totally wholesome and guarantee I'd fork over solid for the grade money on it? If so. Apply sticker.

jom

I gotta try to guess here:

No
Green
Gold
Green
Green
No

jom

scubafuel

Of the 4 not yet revealed.
Dime not cac
Quarter not cac
46 dollar gold
60 dollar green.

mannie gray

Mulligan
Dime--no
Qtr--no
46-O Gold
60-O green

crazyhounddog

I just love your 1805 dime. Very pretty.

KSorbo

My next guess for gold would be the 1819 quarter, it just screams AU, way too much luster for XF. It depends on how much of what looks like wear is due to strike. If not that, then the 60-o dollar.

shish

Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No
Yes - Gold

Although I like the 46-O it appears to have weak luster, CAC can be very tough of LSD.

slider23

Yes
Yes
Gold
Yes
NO
NO

Walkerguy21D

I'll just wait for the official results....I was in the NO camp on the 1805 dime like most of the early voters, and seeing that it has been revealed that one did green bean, then I obviously don't know what to look for.

All very nice coins IMO, stickers or not, and a very cool and informative post. Special thanks to roadrunner for many insightful comments as always!

jonruns

No
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Gold