question - would you make an offer for these gold coins at spot?

subject to examination?


Comments

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 34,262 ✭✭✭✭

    Your offer to pay melt for these coins is unlikely to be accepted since they aren't scrap gold. However, your offer may be accepted if the owner is desperate for some quick cash.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 17,374 ✭✭✭

    There are fakes out there. Compare closely the veins in the leaf. If they are lacking, back off. That one in the upper left seems off color and almost looks circulated. These obviously do not circulate.
    bob:)
    here's a fake: http://www.coincommunity.com/FORUM/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=254676

    BST deals: Dozens of buys/sells. Will provide a list upon request.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom)
  • derrybderryb Posts: 23,242 ✭✭✭✭

    with no buyer protection? No.

    "When pigs are going to be slaughtered, they are first herded into pens for the convenience of the slaughterhouse. When savers are going to be slaughtered, they are herded into digital accounts from which there is no escape." - Jim Rickards

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    There are fakes out there. Compare closely the veins in the leaf. If they are lacking, back off. That one in the upper left seems off color and almost looks circulated. These obviously do not circulate.
    bob:)
    here's a fake: http://www.coincommunity.com/FORUM/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=254676

    thanks that was what I was afraid of.
    Perhaps a case of too good to be true.

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,410 ✭✭✭

    Spot is a good price for them. Not amazing since some show signs of handling. Not quite "scruffy".

    An accurate scale and a ruler or caliper would easily weed out any fakes in the group. It's very tough to fake .999 pure gold in coin forum.

    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Prodcuts & Collections
  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭

    Alarm bells were ringing in my ears when the deal was presented.

    1. Stolen coin resulting in careless handling.
    2. If 1 is right on, then a sting operation by LE.
    3. Counterfeit coins.
    4. Other possibilities?

    I'm glad I walked away from the deal.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭

    It looks like the pic was taken from inside his car. Placed on the center console arm rest.
    That strikes me as an odd place to snap a picture of $7k worth of gold. It may not mean anything.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 13,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. Not only might they be stolen, since the image was taken in such an odd place, but they are cull.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,431 ✭✭✭

    that .9999 stuff is soft it scuffs easy

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Your offer to pay melt for these coins is unlikely to be accepted since they aren't scrap gold. However, your offer may be accepted if the owner is desperate for some quick cash.

    Who would pay more? Looks like they might not be the most pristine, but melt is a good price for them if the "owner" wants a fast sale. Nice coins usually only bring $8 - $10 more. $50 over might be in the higher "retail" range, but good luck with the seller getting that. They appear to be genuine, but without a PM tester you don't know for sure. You'd be looking at about a $7400 cash outlay. Even if they were stolen how could they be traced to you? If your conscience bothers you, pass.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2017 5:09PM

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Your offer to pay melt for these coins is unlikely to be accepted since they aren't scrap gold. However, your offer may be accepted if the owner is desperate for some quick cash.

    Who would pay more? Looks like they might not be the most pristine, but melt is a good price for them if the "owner" wants a fast sale. Nice coins usually only bring $8 - $10 more. $50 over might be in the higher "retail" range, but good luck with the seller getting that. They appear to be genuine, but without a PM tester you don't know for sure. You'd be looking at about a $7400 cash outlay. Even if they were stolen how could they be traced to you? If your conscience bothers you, pass.

    If it wouldn't bother you to own them, offer $7,000 cash for them. A fistful of Bens can sometimes be very persuasive.

    A phone call to your local PD asking if any gold coins were reported stolen might be in order too.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 5,519 ✭✭✭✭

    FWIW they look real to me, but indeed look a little handled.

  • rickoricko Posts: 45,926 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coins look baggy... like they have been carried in a pocket or container for a while... if you are just stacking... $7K would be a fair offer... I would not buy them, prefer AGE's for liquidity. Cheers, RickO

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭

    at least they are .999 or .9999,

    Rule No 1
    never pay spot or more for foreign gold not pure .999 or better

    Rule No 2
    See Rule No 1

    keceph `anah
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    The coins look baggy... like they have been carried in a pocket or container for a while... if you are just stacking... $7K would be a fair offer... I would not buy them, prefer AGE's for liquidity. Cheers, RickO

    At least one AP who posts buy prices would pay spot for them, more if they were pristine.

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2017 9:14PM

    I want to provide the "rest of the story" so that someone may learn something from this experience and not let greed get to them:

    1. The guy responded to my CL ads offering to sell me 24 maple leaf 1 oz gold coins,
    2. I asked him how much he wanted for them & he asked for "fair" offer.
    3. I offered him $24K for all of them; in another response (different email addy) I offered him $25K for them.
    4. He countered with $1050 each , but "accepted" my $24K offer.
    5. He insisted I call him so that he'll know who he is talking too. I refused saying until the deal is made I want to remain anonymous.
    6. Several days went by w/out a peep from him. He may have been shopping them around.
    7. Then he emailed me asking me when and where to meet (without actually saying I'll take your $24K offer).
    8. We made an appt. to meet at a library at a certain time.
    9. I postponed the meeting to an hour later. He emailed me asking me where I was at. I told him I was about 50 miles from the library. He wanted me to meet about halfway from where I was. I refused saying that I was not familiar with the area where I was at.
    10. A few minutes later I decided to cancel the meeting & deal.

    Initially the greed in me wanted to get the deal done ASAP (human nature).

    Then the more I thought about it the more I got suspicious (see 7, and 9). Since he was using an iphone, why couldn't he have google and see what the coins were really worth? 2 possibilities: either they were fakes or were stolen coins and he was trying to set me up with a sting operation (insisting that I phone him and knowing my name). When neither was provided he wanted to rush the meeting by going out of his way to meet me.

    This may or may have been a good or great deal, but it may not and I didn't want to take the risk.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 13,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the additional details, I'd imagine you might have been rolled.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭

    Lol... you have quite an imagination...

    keceph `anah
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,431 ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2017 11:09PM

    Well now you've been rolled

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @KollectorKing said:
    I want to provide the "rest of the story" so that someone may learn something from this experience and not let greed get to them:

    1. The guy responded to my CL ads offering to sell me 24 maple leaf 1 oz gold coins,
    2. I asked him how much he wanted for them & he asked for "fair" offer.
    3. I offered him $24K for all of them; in another response (different email addy) I offered him $25K for them.
    4. He countered with $1050 each , but "accepted" my $24K offer.
    5. He insisted I call him so that he'll know who he is talking too. I refused saying until the deal is made I want to remain anonymous.
    6. Several days went by w/out a peep from him. He may have been shopping them around.
    7. Then he emailed me asking me when and where to meet (without actually saying I'll take your $24K offer).
    8. We made an appt. to meet at a library at a certain time.
    9. I postponed the meeting to an hour later. He emailed me asking me where I was at. I told him I was about 50 miles from the library. He wanted me to meet about halfway from where I was. I refused saying that I was not familiar with the area where I was at.
    10. A few minutes later I decided to cancel the meeting & deal.

    Initially the greed in me wanted to get the deal done ASAP (human nature).

    Then the more I thought about it the more I got suspicious (see 7, and 9). Since he was using an iphone, why couldn't he have google and see what the coins were really worth? 2 possibilities: either they were fakes or were stolen coins and he was trying to set me up with a sting operation (insisting that I phone him and knowing my name). When neither was provided he wanted to rush the meeting by going out of his way to meet me.

    This may or may have been a good or great deal, but it may not and I didn't want to take the risk.

    That seems like the opposite of what a sting operation goes after. What purpose would there be in trying to set up a person looking to buy gold coins? Nobody with legitimate ownership of that many coins is going to take a 20% hit when selling them. When you put up stuff like that on CL you pretty much invite someone to try to scam you.

  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭

    I agree it was smart to bail on this deal.
    You say in #4 that he "accepted" your 24K offer but then in #7 you say he did not accept your offer. Also, 24 K may not be perceived as a fair offer by some.
    Bottom line....you are safe and avoiding the greed impulse was a smart thing to do!

    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • First off no way I'd ever agree to buy something over $20 off of C-List.$24k in cash is sketchy anyway let alone to buy something off of there.You should've arranged the meeting at a police station.If they agree and show up chances are it's on the level.If not well you would have a solid answer.

  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭

    He could get nearly melt for these easily at a locally b&m.......why sell to you below melt?

    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,410 ✭✭✭

    I'm not adverse to the deal. But that size is 100% being done inside a bank and I am paying with a bank draft/certified check and then putting the coins in my bank box before leaving the building.

    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Prodcuts & Collections
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @mkman123 said:
    He could get nearly melt for these easily at a locally b&m.......why sell to you below melt?

    I expect he wants "CASH" and a lot of B & Ms don't have that much cash and if they do they don't want to blow it all on one deal. Even 6 coins would be nearly $7400.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 23,242 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2017 6:46AM

    still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police.

    "When pigs are going to be slaughtered, they are first herded into pens for the convenience of the slaughterhouse. When savers are going to be slaughtered, they are herded into digital accounts from which there is no escape." - Jim Rickards

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭✭

    It's important to think clearly and be careful rather than lusting after what may or may not be the deal of a lifetime. :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty

    Bad transactions with : nobody

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police.

    Why? Why would you want to "judicially" involve yourself in something that doesn't concern you? You put out a WTB ad and if the response doesn't smell right, just pass and let someone else deal with it. Getting involved with the law over it is just dumb.

    OTOH the guy is also taking a risk that some of the cash could be counterfeit. I suppose it's likely that in some places, folks go looking for cash only deals as a way to pass off some bogus bills.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 23,242 ✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @derryb said:
    still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police.

    Why? Why would you want to "judicially" involve yourself in something that doesn't concern you? You put out a WTB ad and if the response doesn't smell right, just pass and let someone else deal with it. Getting involved with the law over it is just dumb.

    Because if it does stink as bad as it smells, then there's a good chance a collector got ripped off. Getting involved might protect other collectors. Report it, let the law sort it out.

    "When pigs are going to be slaughtered, they are first herded into pens for the convenience of the slaughterhouse. When savers are going to be slaughtered, they are herded into digital accounts from which there is no escape." - Jim Rickards

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2017 6:45PM

    @derryb said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @derryb said:
    still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police.

    Why? Why would you want to "judicially" involve yourself in something that doesn't concern you? You put out a WTB ad and if the response doesn't smell right, just pass and let someone else deal with it. Getting involved with the law over it is just dumb.

    Because if it does stink as bad as it smells, then there's a good chance a collector got ripped off. Getting involved might protect other collectors. Report it, let the law sort it out.

    Be my guest. If it doesn't pass the smell test, I'll just pass. I don't need the law to know that I'm a collector/stacker of coins/PMs.

    If you're going to put a WTB ad on CL you might want to check with some local B&Ms to see if they have been advised to be on the lookout for stolen coins first.

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭

    "still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police."

    Quote circa 2017, presumed to have been either an illegal alien or a university professor...

    keceph `anah
  • derrybderryb Posts: 23,242 ✭✭✭✭

    . . . or a troll. LOL

    "When pigs are going to be slaughtered, they are first herded into pens for the convenience of the slaughterhouse. When savers are going to be slaughtered, they are herded into digital accounts from which there is no escape." - Jim Rickards

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭

    Back out and back out now!!!

    This is what happened to a dealer friend of mine. Same quantity , 24 maples. I did not know the whole story until after he (my money) got taken, I assumed it was a customer of his. It wasn't till after the fact that I found out the whole truth to the story and it was very similar to what you stated. (craigs list add and very similar plot). I fronted the cash to buy them, and the coins were real when I inspected them, but when my ex: dealer friend went to finalize the deal with the money, he pulled the ole switch a roo. By the time I realized he had switched them, he took off running. The dealer I fronted left me holding the bag on the funds. It was a tough 22k loss I can assure you. These folks were professional, it was a hard lesson learned 1) about doing deals like this, 2) fronting the funds to another person to do a deal like this.
    This was Dec 17 2015 , "if you want to read about it more, check out doug davis ncic log

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭

    I might also add, just a few weeks ago. I had a daughter of a guy who just passed bring in several fake maples. She said her dad had bought them from a craigslist add, well they were all fake, and she was heartbroken. He probably got scammed from same type set up before he died.

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2017 4:01AM

    @jdimmick said:
    Back out and back out now!!!

    This is what happened to a dealer friend of mine. Same quantity , 24 maples. I did not know the whole story until after he (my money) got taken, I assumed it was a customer of his. It wasn't till after the fact that I found out the whole truth to the story and it was very similar to what you stated. (craigs list add and very similar plot). I fronted the cash to buy them, and the coins were real when I inspected them, but when my ex: dealer friend went to finalize the deal with the money, he pulled the ole switch a roo. By the time I realized he had switched them, he took off running. The dealer I fronted left me holding the bag on the funds. It was a tough 22k loss I can assure you. These folks were professional, it was a hard lesson learned 1) about doing deals like this, 2) fronting the funds to another person to do a deal like this.
    This was Dec 17 2015 , "if you want to read about it more, check out doug davis ncic log

    Great story & advice. Thanks for sharing. Also I'm very sorry for your loss.

    In my case I never met the perp. There were too many red flags for it to be legit.

    One more thing. I have the perp's name & phone #. Not sure if either is real since I never spoke to him.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭

    KK<

    the phone is probably a prepaid type deal, I believe that is what the guy had that got us. The detectives traced it back to a Walmart phone. Rental car back to a place outside Norfolk , VA. Trail went dead after that. Had I had the full truth and info from my ex:dealer friend On how he was contacted , I would have backed out as well. As I mentioned earlier, Charles Gray gave me the impression it was a customer his and not some damn craigslist deal. I think he was just anxious on making a good Christmas bonus and let greed get in the way, after all , he wasn't the one fronting the money .

    Just for the record, I had known Charles for 8 years prior to that, bought 2 Toyota 's from him when he was service manager at a local Toyota dealer ship and even did a 9k gold deal with him a few years prior where I trusted him with the cash up front and he brought the collector gold back the next morning. This time, he left me hanging cold turkey.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 17,374 ✭✭✭

    I really do not understand why anyone wanting to sell coins would use CL. That gold is easily sold at any coin shop, etc. Any smelter (like Midwest Refineries) will pay 95% of the gold value so no need to take any great hit on generic gold.
    bob

    BST deals: Dozens of buys/sells. Will provide a list upon request.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom)
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    I really do not understand why anyone wanting to sell coins would use CL. That gold is easily sold at any coin shop, etc. Any smelter (like Midwest Refineries) will pay 95% of the gold value so no need to take any great hit on generic gold.
    bob

    Lack of B&Ms or they don't pay well enough. Also people want cash although there is risk of a buyer trying to slip bogus bills to you in that wad of Bens.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭

    we would pay 95% , but trust me the other coin shop here in town would be at best 15% back of spot

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    A couple around here pay $15-20 over for 1 ounce AGEs. Maybe $10 over for Leafs.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭

    It always amazes me what other shops pay away from this area, it is so depressed here its not even funny. I cant even sell maples or k rands for more than 97% of spot. No body buying a damn thing. You cant give stuff away here, have to ship literally 98% of what I buy bullion related, collector stuff, ebay gets 90% of it. Flea market dealers get the rest.

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 361 ✭✭✭

    @jdimmick said:
    It always amazes me what other shops pay away from this area, it is so depressed here its not even funny. I cant even sell maples or k rands for more than 97% of spot. No body buying a damn thing. You cant give stuff away here, have to ship literally 98% of what I buy bullion related, collector stuff, ebay gets 90% of it. Flea market dealers get the rest.

    Where are you located?

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 27,480 ✭✭✭

    @jdimmick said:
    It always amazes me what other shops pay away from this area, it is so depressed here its not even funny. I cant even sell maples or k rands for more than 97% of spot. No body buying a damn thing. You cant give stuff away here, have to ship literally 98% of what I buy bullion related, collector stuff, ebay gets 90% of it. Flea market dealers get the rest.

    It's going to cost them 3-3.5% over to buy from an AP plus and delay/cost for shipping so it makes sense to pay properly for stuff that walks in the door, esp. if you have customers for it. At least one AP pays 2% for 1 ounce AGEs. When you pay a premium over bar/round price for AGEs you should expect to get some of that back when you sell.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 13,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Around here, one ounce gold Canadian Maples can sold for spot + $25 to dealers.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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