question - would you make an offer for these gold coins at spot?
KollectorKing
Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
subject to examination?
1
KollectorKing
Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Your offer to pay melt for these coins is unlikely to be accepted since they aren't scrap gold. However, your offer may be accepted if the owner is desperate for some quick cash.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There are fakes out there. Compare closely the veins in the leaf. If they are lacking, back off. That one in the upper left seems off color and almost looks circulated. These obviously do not circulate.
bob:)
here's a fake: http://www.coincommunity.com/FORUM/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=254676
with no buyer protection? No.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
thanks that was what I was afraid of.
Perhaps a case of too good to be true.
Spot is a good price for them. Not amazing since some show signs of handling. Not quite "scruffy".
An accurate scale and a ruler or caliper would easily weed out any fakes in the group. It's very tough to fake .999 pure gold in coin forum.
Alarm bells were ringing in my ears when the deal was presented.
I'm glad I walked away from the deal.
It looks like the pic was taken from inside his car. Placed on the center console arm rest.
That strikes me as an odd place to snap a picture of $7k worth of gold. It may not mean anything.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
No. Not only might they be stolen, since the image was taken in such an odd place, but they are cull.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
that .9999 stuff is soft it scuffs easy
Who would pay more? Looks like they might not be the most pristine, but melt is a good price for them if the "owner" wants a fast sale. Nice coins usually only bring $8 - $10 more. $50 over might be in the higher "retail" range, but good luck with the seller getting that. They appear to be genuine, but without a PM tester you don't know for sure. You'd be looking at about a $7400 cash outlay. Even if they were stolen how could they be traced to you? If your conscience bothers you, pass.
If it wouldn't bother you to own them, offer $7,000 cash for them. A fistful of Bens can sometimes be very persuasive.
A phone call to your local PD asking if any gold coins were reported stolen might be in order too.
FWIW they look real to me, but indeed look a little handled.
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The coins look baggy... like they have been carried in a pocket or container for a while... if you are just stacking... $7K would be a fair offer... I would not buy them, prefer AGE's for liquidity. Cheers, RickO
at least they are .999 or .9999,
Rule No 1
never pay spot or more for foreign gold not pure .999 or better
Rule No 2
See Rule No 1
At least one AP who posts buy prices would pay spot for them, more if they were pristine.
I want to provide the "rest of the story" so that someone may learn something from this experience and not let greed get to them:
Initially the greed in me wanted to get the deal done ASAP (human nature).
Then the more I thought about it the more I got suspicious (see 7, and 9). Since he was using an iphone, why couldn't he have google and see what the coins were really worth? 2 possibilities: either they were fakes or were stolen coins and he was trying to set me up with a sting operation (insisting that I phone him and knowing my name). When neither was provided he wanted to rush the meeting by going out of his way to meet me.
This may or may have been a good or great deal, but it may not and I didn't want to take the risk.
With the additional details, I'd imagine you might have been rolled.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Lol... you have quite an imagination...
Well now you've been rolled
That seems like the opposite of what a sting operation goes after. What purpose would there be in trying to set up a person looking to buy gold coins? Nobody with legitimate ownership of that many coins is going to take a 20% hit when selling them. When you put up stuff like that on CL you pretty much invite someone to try to scam you.
I agree it was smart to bail on this deal.
You say in #4 that he "accepted" your 24K offer but then in #7 you say he did not accept your offer. Also, 24 K may not be perceived as a fair offer by some.
Bottom line....you are safe and avoiding the greed impulse was a smart thing to do!
First off no way I'd ever agree to buy something over $20 off of C-List.$24k in cash is sketchy anyway let alone to buy something off of there.You should've arranged the meeting at a police station.If they agree and show up chances are it's on the level.If not well you would have a solid answer.
BST references several
He could get nearly melt for these easily at a locally b&m.......why sell to you below melt?
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I'm not adverse to the deal. But that size is 100% being done inside a bank and I am paying with a bank draft/certified check and then putting the coins in my bank box before leaving the building.
I expect he wants "CASH" and a lot of B & Ms don't have that much cash and if they do they don't want to blow it all on one deal. Even 6 coins would be nearly $7400.
still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's important to think clearly and be careful rather than lusting after what may or may not be the deal of a lifetime.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Why? Why would you want to "judicially" involve yourself in something that doesn't concern you? You put out a WTB ad and if the response doesn't smell right, just pass and let someone else deal with it. Getting involved with the law over it is just dumb.
OTOH the guy is also taking a risk that some of the cash could be counterfeit. I suppose it's likely that in some places, folks go looking for cash only deals as a way to pass off some bogus bills.
Because if it does stink as bad as it smells, then there's a good chance a collector got ripped off. Getting involved might protect other collectors. Report it, let the law sort it out.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Be my guest. If it doesn't pass the smell test, I'll just pass. I don't need the law to know that I'm a collector/stacker of coins/PMs.
If you're going to put a WTB ad on CL you might want to check with some local B&Ms to see if they have been advised to be on the lookout for stolen coins first.
"still trying to find something not wrong about the whole deal. Deal should have been handed over to the police."
Quote circa 2017, presumed to have been either an illegal alien or a university professor...
. . . or a troll. LOL
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Back out and back out now!!!
This is what happened to a dealer friend of mine. Same quantity , 24 maples. I did not know the whole story until after he (my money) got taken, I assumed it was a customer of his. It wasn't till after the fact that I found out the whole truth to the story and it was very similar to what you stated. (craigs list add and very similar plot). I fronted the cash to buy them, and the coins were real when I inspected them, but when my ex: dealer friend went to finalize the deal with the money, he pulled the ole switch a roo. By the time I realized he had switched them, he took off running. The dealer I fronted left me holding the bag on the funds. It was a tough 22k loss I can assure you. These folks were professional, it was a hard lesson learned 1) about doing deals like this, 2) fronting the funds to another person to do a deal like this.
This was Dec 17 2015 , "if you want to read about it more, check out doug davis ncic log
I might also add, just a few weeks ago. I had a daughter of a guy who just passed bring in several fake maples. She said her dad had bought them from a craigslist add, well they were all fake, and she was heartbroken. He probably got scammed from same type set up before he died.
Great story & advice. Thanks for sharing. Also I'm very sorry for your loss.
In my case I never met the perp. There were too many red flags for it to be legit.
One more thing. I have the perp's name & phone #. Not sure if either is real since I never spoke to him.
KK<
the phone is probably a prepaid type deal, I believe that is what the guy had that got us. The detectives traced it back to a Walmart phone. Rental car back to a place outside Norfolk , VA. Trail went dead after that. Had I had the full truth and info from my ex:dealer friend On how he was contacted , I would have backed out as well. As I mentioned earlier, Charles Gray gave me the impression it was a customer his and not some damn craigslist deal. I think he was just anxious on making a good Christmas bonus and let greed get in the way, after all , he wasn't the one fronting the money .
Just for the record, I had known Charles for 8 years prior to that, bought 2 Toyota 's from him when he was service manager at a local Toyota dealer ship and even did a 9k gold deal with him a few years prior where I trusted him with the cash up front and he brought the collector gold back the next morning. This time, he left me hanging cold turkey.
I really do not understand why anyone wanting to sell coins would use CL. That gold is easily sold at any coin shop, etc. Any smelter (like Midwest Refineries) will pay 95% of the gold value so no need to take any great hit on generic gold.
bob
Lack of B&Ms or they don't pay well enough. Also people want cash although there is risk of a buyer trying to slip bogus bills to you in that wad of Bens.
we would pay 95% , but trust me the other coin shop here in town would be at best 15% back of spot
A couple around here pay $15-20 over for 1 ounce AGEs. Maybe $10 over for Leafs.
It always amazes me what other shops pay away from this area, it is so depressed here its not even funny. I cant even sell maples or k rands for more than 97% of spot. No body buying a damn thing. You cant give stuff away here, have to ship literally 98% of what I buy bullion related, collector stuff, ebay gets 90% of it. Flea market dealers get the rest.
Where are you located?
It's going to cost them 3-3.5% over to buy from an AP plus and delay/cost for shipping so it makes sense to pay properly for stuff that walks in the door, esp. if you have customers for it. At least one AP pays 2% for 1 ounce AGEs. When you pay a premium over bar/round price for AGEs you should expect to get some of that back when you sell.
Around here, one ounce gold Canadian Maples can sold for spot + $25 to dealers.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Please let us know when they go belly up...
it made me think
in late 1982 they switched from 999 to 9999. there are no 1982 shown
photo set #1 shows 2 pre-82 but only 1 999
photo set #2 shows 1 pre-82 but 0 999
plus the leafs are lacking detail
a couple have veins on steroids
they are all fake
real reverse:
I wondered how long it would take before someone called this tiny detail out. The first pictured set of six coins has a 1999 Maple with .999 purity, whereas the second set has another of the same date with .9999 purity on the coin.
Or to avoid the big brother & IRS
Does anyone offer a portable or battery powered PMV? Or one you could plug into the cigarette lighter outlet in your vehicle. There are battery powered scales that should be able to weigh the difference between real and fake gold.