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So-Called Dollar collectors --- what are your favorites??

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 20, 2017 4:49AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Ever since I first stumbled onto SC$'s around 1999-2000 the medals have really intrigued me. There appeal stems from the diversity, the range of events, designs, sizes and types of planchet alloys used for the various medals, and it keeps them interesting and sometimes a challenge to locate. I remember when I first reached out via this forum to gather some information about them and to see if anyone else even knew what the were and maybe collected them.


Man, was I surprised!!

It turned out that I was late to the party. Apparently other members were long time collectors and there also seemed to be an interest among other but not much information available. That changed over the course of 7-8 years as an effort was undertaken to publish a 2nd Edition book and interest grew.

I thought I would ask a few questions of the Board directed towards where everyone's main interests seem to be.
1. What is your favorite Exposition or event??
2. What is your favorite individual medal or design type??
3. Do you collect randomly or do you have an end goal??
4. Which portion of the catalogue do you find yourself most perusing, National, Local or Monetary??
5. Are you an active buyer and seller or just one of the two??
6. Who is your favorite dealer??
7. If you have pictures, can you post one of your favorite designs??

Thanks in advance and Happy collecting.

Al H.

«1

Comments

  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a few of the California Gold Discovery slug medals.

    The California Gold Rush was a major event in the state's history and early in the 20th century San Francisco's Irvine & Jachens medal company and other companies began striking medals to commemorate it.

    A favorite medal design was based on the octagonal $50 gold coin or "slug" issued by Augustus Humbert's San Francisco Assay Office in the 1850's.

    image
    California Gold Discovery Centennial Medal - Pioneer Days

    Bronze, 40mm, 23.47gm, octagonal, medal orientation

    Obverse: California State Seal / EUREKA
    SOUVENIR PIONEER DAYS OF CALIFORNIA / THE DAYS OF '49

    Reverse: Copy of U.S. Assay Office $50 gold piece with eagle and shield
    FACSIMILE OF FAMOUS CALIFORNIA FIFTY DOLLAR GOLD SLUG USED BY THE PIONEERS 1850
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA / FIFTY. / IN GOD WE TRUST in banner

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies
    Coins on Television

  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That Tiffany piece is very cool!

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was initially attracted to the 1926 Sesquicentennial Exposition and the 1933-34 Century of Progress because of the time when they were held and the designs. after that I turned my attention to issues tied to Thomas Elder. lately I have been seeking out R6+ issues with a design which appeals to me. it has caused me to realize just how scarce some of the medals really are, especially in problem free, higher grades.

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2017 11:47AM

    One favorite:Currently NGC MS62

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember when I was chasing after an HK-1 and finally obtained one from a Presidential with the help of Julian. circumstances forced me to sell but it was a nice medal to own.

    Low Bridge

    I've got an old mule and her name is Sal
    Fifteen years on the Erie Canal
    She's a good old worker and a good old pal
    Fifteen years on the Erie Canal

    We've hauled some barges in our day
    Filled with lumber, coal, and hay
    And every inch of the way I (we) know
    From Albany to Buffalo

    Low bridge, everybody down
    Low bridge cause we're coming to a town
    And you'll always know your neighbor
    And you'll always know your pal
    If you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal

    Get up there Sal, we've passed that lock,
    Fifteen years on the Erie Canal
    And we'll make Rome before six o'clock
    Fifteen years on the Erie Canal

    One more trip and back we'll go
    Through the rain and sleet and snow
    And every inch of the way I (we) know
    From Albany to Buffalo

    Low bridge, everybody down
    Low bridge for we're coming to a town
    And you'll always know your neighbor
    And you'll always know your pal
    If you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, @keets. You caught me monologguing. :)

    One of my favorite designs is actually available from Jeff Shelvin right now.

    HK281 in NGC AU55
    1898 Trans Mississippi Exposition in silver:

    http://so-calleddollar.com/DollarSite/ForSaleDollars.aspx?category=70&title=HK 268-298

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • oldgoldloveroldgoldlover Posts: 429 ✭✭✭

    1794 although I don't have one.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oldgoldlover, you should probably return to the political thread because you are either lost or confused in this one.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2017 9:37PM

    Great pieces everyone! I'm also a big fan of California imitation slugs, Panama Canal and Bryan pieces.

    I recently picked up a 1896 Bryan dime which I love for how crude they are. I makes me imagine more about how they were created, distributed and used.

  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There certainly are some great looking pieces... some real medallic art on these.... Cheers, RickO

  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WDP said:
    ... from their large So-Called Dollar collection of over 700 different H&K Numbers, one of the largest collections ever formed.

    FWIW, there are about 1,400 different HK numbers, so a collection of 700 different would be only about half the total. That's impressive, but I can't imagine it would be a record holder.

    There are over 900 varieties that are R-6 and lower, giving a lot of margin even if you don't try for the rarities at all.

    I figure that the largest So-Called Dollar collections would have had to have about 1,100 different varieties. There are about 100 R-9 and R-10 listings, and another 200 R-8. All the rest should be obtainable to someone with patience (and some money to spend). Even the R-8s and R-9s show up from time to time.

  • SCDHunterSCDHunter Posts: 686 ✭✭✭

    Here is one of my favorites with a trueview:

  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2017 12:26PM

    Would this one of mine qualify as a "So-Called Dollar?" Is there an accepted definition?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2017 10:48PM

    @northcoin said:
    Would this one of mine qualify as a "So-Called Dollar?" Is there an accepted definition?

    It's cataloged as HK-424 by NGC so yes.

    One accepted definition is the one used by Harold E. Hibler and Charles V. Kappen in their reference "So-Called Dollars". Recently ATS has been adding to what they considered SCDs.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ** Is there an accepted definition**

    yes, there is, it's given in the catalogue originally written by Hibler-Kappen. the only problem is that it is a little vague and the authors made several very clear forays outside of their own parameters. it has been discussed here several times. there should really be some type of "clearinghouse" for newly discovered varieties or medals from qualifying events which were unknown to the authors when they first published their book. as it is now, anyone who chooses to do so may call an item a "So-Called Dollar" and hope for some sucker to accept it as such.

    for your own edification, go to eBay and in the US Coin section search for "So-Called Dollar" to see what comes up. it is quite ridiculous and frustrating.

    I tend to be a purist, Zoins is far more liberal.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2017 11:09AM

    There seem to be 4 definitions of SCD in varying amounts of use:

    1. The definition used by HK
    2. Only what has been assigned a HK number
    3. What ATS slabs with "SC$" on the insert
    4. Dollar-sized token or medal for an event: typically what is used on eBay

    The difficulty in these definitions includes a few areas from what I've seen:

    • HK violated their own definitions numerous times so what is to prevent more pieces from violating the definition? This is mentioned by @keets above.
    • HK stated that they limited the definition due to resources to "contain our efforts within a manageable perimeter", so in the context of unlimited resources, do their restrictions still hold?
    • The "So-Called Dollar" term was not invented by Hibber & Kappen, but was invented much earlier by Thomas Elder.

    From our previous threads, it appears I tend to use #1 and @keets tends to use #2. From an eBay perspective, I'm okay with #3 and #4 as well, while @keets has tended to stay with #2. Regarding searching on eBay, when I want to search for HK listed SCDs, I simply add "HK" to the search terms which works fine for me.

    I agree that it would be nice to have a cataloging service to assign new numbers for HK unlisted SCDs. I believe Jeff Shevlin has started an effort to assign numbers to some HK unlisted pieces.

  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭


    Don't think this one qualifies but I believe some of this design do.

    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭

    Also like.

    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zoins, your post was very succinct. from my perspective, it highlights why I have changed from allowing NGC to encapsulate my medals to using PCGS --- NGC will apparently slab almost anything and fit it into where they feel it should be. I know from prior experience that with NGC I can send something to them and they will "figure out" what it is and where it belongs, PCGS lists where an item can be found and requires us to submit accordingly.

    your four definitions can be(and actually were) explained by you very well in the eBay search suggestion:
    --- navigating eBay to search "Exonumia" for So-Called Dollars using that term I get 3,222 listings.
    --- navigating eBay to search "Exonumia" for So-Called Dollars using "HK" I get 833 listings.

    that tells me that the term is way over-used and that the narrow definition is probably the correct one even though it is flawed.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2017 7:03PM

    Good points on the different TPGs and eBay listings @keets . I agree with the observations but have different perspectives. Part of this is because I think the number of medals with HK numbers is limited by the lack of major ongoing cataloging effort. If there is no ongoing effort to catalog more HK pieces, I think the TPGs, eBay and others should be more inclusive using accepted definitions. Specifically:

    • regarding TPGs, I appreciate more liberal slabbing of pieces done by other TPGs and hope our hosts will slab more over time.
    • regarding eBay, I appreciate being able to review more pieces, especially ones that are unlisted. As mentioned, adding a simple "HK" to the search will accomplish the goal of seeing HK listed SCDs. For comparison, the eBay category for patterns does not permit only ones with a Judd or Pollock number, the category for errors does not only permit ones with a CONECA number. This comparison indicates to me that the current approach of not requiring a catalog number is probably the correct approach.

    But let's get back to favorite SCDs. There are so many great designs that I think showcasing sub-sets of SCDs would be great for creating more interest. It would be great to set up sub-collections, possibly as PCGS Registry Sets, e.g. for Lesher Dollar varieties, Columbian Exposition, etc.

  • 1patwick1patwick Posts: 116 ✭✭✭



    I've had many favorites but when this AYPE HK-356A was for sale on eBay for an undervalued 'buy it now' price, I closed my browser in disbelief.
    Compared to the "Official Medal", HK-353-6, 32mm, this medal, 34mm has greater detail both obv. and rev., http://www.socalleddollar.com/abWorldsFairs.html (compare to HK-354). Unfortunately, the Seattle City Counsel disagreed long before I was born... oh well
    In any event, My opinion and your $6.00 will buy you a latte....

  • EXOJUNKIEEXOJUNKIE Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since this thread got resurrected I guess I'll add a SCD. I don't have a lot of them but this is a recent newp and a favorite.

    I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!

    ANA LM

    USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some really nice SCD's. I was born in Wisconsin so had to get this one:

    photo Wisconsin_So_Called_Dollar_ComboA.jpg

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My favorite So-Called Dollars are the comparative Bryan dollars that Brayan’s opponents issued during the 1896 and 1900 presidential campaigns. These pieces were made of coin silver (90% silver and 10%) and were made in sizes that were equal to what a dollar’s worth of silver would have needed to be at the time to make a silver dollar worth a dollar. There were exact dates on each piece.

    My favorite piece is among the rarest, the piece sold by the Tiffany jewelry store during the 1896 campaign with the cartwheel symbol on the reverse. The cartwheel had the diameter of a Morgan silver dollar. There is also a more common Tiffany piece was a blank reverse. The most common pieces were issued by the Gorham silver company in 1896. They come with both the cartwheel design and the blank reverse.

    In general the 1900 dated pieces are much scarcer than the 1896 pieces. Bryan tried to use the free silver issue in 1900 just as he had in 1896, but he didn’t get as much traction with it. The state of the economy had greatly improved, and fewer voters were drawn to the issue.

    Here is one of the more common Gorham pieces. A previous owner had his name engraved on the the reverse. This piece is fairly common.


    Here is a Tiffany piece with the circle on the reverse that represents the diameter of a Morgan Dollar. This piece is rare.


    And here is a piece from 1900 that is the same size as a regular silver dollar. The books say this piece is fairly common, but I think that it is pretty scarce. I have not seen a great examples of this variety offered for sale in the 20+ years I've been collecting this series.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A couple that I have pictures of:
    HK-411

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and HK-415 A

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Other Pan-Pac's:
    HK-287

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and: HK-422

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My one and only...so far. ;)

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOW WDP! That is certainly an impressive Bryan Dollar! I'd love to see the one that has a Type I gold dollar embedded in its surface that is pictured in Schornstein.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017 12:05PM

    how about:

    HK-268

    COTTON STATES INTL EXPO
    1895

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More?

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • WDPWDP Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Bill. I'm glad you liked the engraved Bryan Dollar I posted above.

    I've always wanted to see the Bryan Dollar with the Type 1 Gold Dollar also! I'm guessing it might be in Fred Schornstein's collection, but this is only a guess on my part.

    W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN

  • CWT1863CWT1863 Posts: 316 ✭✭✭✭

    @WDP That is an amazing piece! Very fascinating history. It must have been amazing to acquire Farran Zerbe’s personal collection.

    ANA-LM, CWTS-LM, NBS, TAMS, ANS

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017 4:48PM

    @keets, My 1910 HK-392 Brian Boru Dollar sure is popular in your threads lately...

    I should be seeing a royalties check from you in the mail soon! ;):smiley:

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • VeepVeep Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭✭

    Don’t have a pic handy but the 1902 Wells Fargo is far and away my favorite.

    "Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Frank, that's because it's such a great design. I should never have sold it but I thought Id be able to find a replacement. that is proving difficult.

  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭


  • SCDHunterSCDHunter Posts: 686 ✭✭✭

    A lot of nice SCSs being posted. Keep them coming!

  • WDPWDP Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @SCDHunter. Here's another Bryan Dollar, this one a beautifully toned Gem H&K 778, S2, Z2 (Uniface) in NGC MS65. This is ex. Zerbe-Ostheimer-Perkins.

    ...

    ....
    Photo courtesy of W. David Perkins.

    W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN

  • WDPWDP Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a rare Nevada Dollar from 1933. Most of the pieces struck were melted. I think this is much rarer than the R-6 rarity rating in the second edition So-Called Dollars book on page 161. This is the Plate Coin for H&K 821 in the second edition of the book - the author's did not have a plate photo until I sent them a photo of this medal 2-3 months before the book was published. This is ex. Ostheimer-Perkins collections.
    ....

    ....

    ....
    Photo courtesy of W. David Perkins.

    W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN

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