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PAMP Bar Premium?

New silver stacker here, just wondering why the big markup on their silver bars (1oz, 10oz)? Can you recoup the added cost when it comes time to sell?

Thx!

Comments

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Supply and demand. Pamp bars are neat. Honestly, in my experience and my opinion: Maybe in some circumstances you might be able to recoup a little of the premium. Maybe. Like selling small quantities online, there are those who might want an example in their collection. But unless they are very rare, unusual, old bars in sizes that collectors want nobody will pay you much of a premium over the silver value. If they pay you any premium at all.

    If you can buy them locally at or near what other less desirable bars cost, go for it. But buying new bars at a significant premium over other bars doesn't make much sense.
    By the same token, I try to avoid ultra-generic bars and rounds. Stick with middle of the road stuff.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd try and stick to stuff that's as close to spot as possible.

  • vanwagvanwag Posts: 11 ✭✭

    I think I'll take your advice and just buy a 1 oz to have and other types for investment.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Historically the PAMP bars, have always demanded a premium. And for the most part, that premium will pass along when it's time to sell. Personally, I collect the 100 g PAMP Lunar silver bars, because of the artistry in their design.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭

    Never had a problem recouping the premium. It has come down because these bars are much easier to find in quantity today than 5 years ago.

    Buy a few to show off and spend the rest on ASE's.


    Loves me some shiny!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will stick with ASE's.....I do acquire the occasional art silver, but that is because it has a theme I find attractive. Cheers, RickO

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe we're not talking about the same thing here.

    JM Bullion has one ounce Pamp bars for $26.39 each. APMEX has the same thing for $30.07. These are just the "normal" Pamp 1 oz bars in the standard blue assay card. Both sites have the premium limited release red assay cards (snake, monkey, true happiness, etc) for $32 to $35 each. And these are all current release bars. We're not talking about the really rare city view bars that run $100 or more per ounce. People who buy these aren't investing in silver. They're collecting silver. Nothing wrong with that, but it's an entirely different sport.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like Pamp bars in their assay packs. I use to buy their fractional gold bars 5g/10g/etc but sold everything I owned in a PAMP assay pack after seeing how China and Ali Baba have almost perfected faking these.

    It's too tough to determine authenticity of the blister packs and material inside the blister packs without ruining them by opening them up and losing the premium associated with them. There are a lot of fake gold bars in what looks like genuine PAMP and I don't have the time or energy to screen for that...

    http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/counterfeit-gold-silver-beware-fake-pamp-suisse-gold-bars/

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How true...the Chinese throughout the ages have always been known in their mastery of copying coins and now PM bars.
    ( Nothing is sacred anymore ... and that includes, AGE's & APE's)

    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20170115152503&SearchText=gold+eagles

    "To combat these more sophisticated fakes, PAMP Suisse has developed a new technology called VeriScan. This system takes extremely close, high-resolution photos of each bar while they’re still in production. It then pairs that image to the serial number stamped on the bar. By using a Canon flatbed scanner or purpose-built scanner, anyone can scan a bar and have the VeriScan software compare it to the photo stored at PAMP headquarters. This allows you to verify the authenticity of a bar without removing it from its sealed packaging."

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2017 5:38PM

    @OPA said:
    How true...the Chinese throughout the ages have always been known in their mastery of copying coins and now PM bars.
    ( Nothing is sacred anymore ... and that includes, AGE's & APE's)

    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20170115152503&SearchText=gold+eagles

    "To combat these more sophisticated fakes, PAMP Suisse has developed a new technology called VeriScan. This system takes extremely close, high-resolution photos of each bar while they’re still in production. It then pairs that image to the serial number stamped on the bar. By using a Canon flatbed scanner or purpose-built scanner, anyone can scan a bar and have the VeriScan software compare it to the photo stored at PAMP headquarters. This allows you to verify the authenticity of a bar without removing it from its sealed packaging."

    (My entire post didn't come out the first time, wtf. Editing to add in my missing paragraphs.)

    That is some cool technology (like what PCGS does with their "secure" submissions) thanks for sharing that, I didn't know!

    It would still be additional work to verify and if you're buying/selling at a coin show or online, there is still no way to know for sure until you're home to compare and that is too late. I'm sure you don't have your scanner and laptop under your arm during a coin show or when your at your LCS.

    Sticking to ASE's, AGE's 90% and pre-33 $2.5 and $5 and $10 are pretty easy to authenticate (if not slabbed) with some knowledge, calipers, a scale and a loupe.

    I know all of us probably have a fake coin, bar or round in our stack, but I'd rather stick to easily verifiable items since counterfeiters are relentless and go unpunished. Next think I'll have to invest in is an XRF gun or a sigma PM verifier.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So far as gold goes: I agree with @ShadyDave . Pamp's assay cards were the very reason I sold all of my Pamp gold. That was a 10 ounce and 20 1-oz bars. The writing on the wall was that the assay cards would actually inhibit the ability to check for authenticity, turning their one distinct asset into a liability. Don't regret it a bit. That's also one of the main reasons that new gold I buy with the understanding that it may need to be drilled open, sawed in half, shaved, dipped in acid, plunked into a tank of water, or at the very least, read by one of the newer scanners. Another reason why I won't buy any bar in an "assay card" anymore. Gold does a pretty good job of being gold. That's why it's been desirable for thousands of years. You put something between you and the gold, it's an invitation to deceit.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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