Need an opinion on light bulbs for coin examining - LED or Incandescent
dorancoins
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I noticed in the past year that stores such as Walmart or Home Depot are selling more LED light bulbs and less (or none) of the incandescent bulbs. Currently I use a regular 75 watt bulb for my coin examining. Has anyone here had experiences with the LED bulbs. I was planning to go to Home Depot and get the equivalent of the 75 watt bulb (not daylight) but want to get opinions here first before I spend any money. Any advice here would be appreciated.
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The United States Congress, in all of its infinite wisdom, outlawed the incandescent light bulb, making them difficult to impossible to find now. And this came at about the same time as Americans voted Edison's electric light bulb as the most significant invention in our country's history, making it possible for people to work, study, and enjoy life after the sun sets. The electric light bulb increased productivity by extending the workday.
If you can find them, I have found the GE Reveal light bulbs to be superior when examining coins (or reading, or pretty much anything else). The temperature of the light allows true colors to be revealed, and is comfortable on the eyes. I did what many others did when the news of Congress' blunder was first reported, and bought up case quantities of the GE Reveal bulbs.
Cac sent me Travers' book Coin Collectors' Survival manual not long ago; it has a section on the effects of lighting, can either make AU coins look like gems or gems look like low grade coins, lighting is critical. Halogen lights are some of the best, not hard to find.
If I'm not mistaken we are importing incandescent bulbs from China. Yeah, the infinite wisdom of government shut down an industry here and gave it to China.
I bought some of those natural GE bulbs at the drug store a month ago in a four pack to replace the curly Q types. Two of them already burned out!
Incondescent bulbs are the best if you can find them. I don't like hallogen lights at all although some dealers swear by them. They are WAY too bright for me.
Well, I bought a desk lamp off of eBay that takes a maximum of 60 watts. This lamp has a base on it in addition to the clamp-on. I was planning to purchase a LED bulb equivalent of 75 watts as the light source. This lamp would be used when I look at collections. I have Walmart 60 watt bulbs on my coin show lamps that I bought from Ikea. Couldn't beat the price. Been to a few shops in my area and only one uses a lamp. The others use overhead florescent lighting, which, I will say jokingly, makes all coins look good. Its a shame that the incandescent bulbs are slowly going the way of the dodo, but what can you do. I have another question for you guys - what wattage of bulb do you use. As I said, I use a 75 watt and my coin show lamps I use a 60 watt. Any ideas?
Scott is a good man but IMO, halogen (and tensor) lights are the worst lights for grading and useless for authentication UNLESS you are using high powers of magnification w/stereo microscope.
TPGS's and grading seminars use 75-100 watt Incandescent bulbs in a dark room. I learned from a professional TPGS authenticator that the U.S. Mint used florescent light for authentication. He also demonstrated that florescent easily showed friction wear on a coin's high points because it eliminated the glare.
I use both 100W for detecting marks and hairlines and florescent to detect rub at the AU-BU line.
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Initially the LED bulb lighting was pretty harsh and leaned way too much to the cold blue spectrum. Now the soft white LED bulbs pretty much imitate the old incandescent bulbs fairly well, plus they stay cool, which is a big plus to me. I recent invested in some new LED lights with adjustable brightness and lighting temp control and have been really happy with them for my photography:
https://amazon.com/gp/product/B00VUTAFR8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I find some of the postings here amusing, maybe the collectors from a century ago were lamenting the death of the candle and complained how those newfangled Edison bulbs just didn't show their coins correctly. Gubmint or not, I do like LED bulbs the way they are now more than the old bulbs.
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The Home Depot by me has a display with 3 different types of LED lighting. Maybe take a coin there & view it under each one?
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I have read that the color is what you should look for...5000K
"5000k compact fluorescent bulb highly recommended for product photography"
http://www.tabletopstudio.com/documents/coin_photography.htm
It's just another opinion
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75 watt (sell lamp) may be ok but 100 watt better (buy lamp on back table).
I used to use Reveal incandescents - the smaller candelabra bulbs for my desk lamp. They worked great but they sure didn't last long. And the color was a bit on the warm side at 2850K (warm yellowish light).
I longed for a crisper light - toward the cool end of the scale from 4000K to 5000K (whiter and bluer light). Have found a few candelabra bulbs for my desk lamp and am experimenting with them. They ALL work better than the Reveal incandescents - especially for cameo work. I also like that they do not generate much heat as they use only 10% of the energy that the ancient incandescent technology uses.
You can argue all you want about the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 that trashed the energy hogging incandescent light bulbs (and old tubular fluorescents). But I truly believe that LEDs are the way to go. Much more energy efficient, and the bulbs last 20 to 40 times longer to boot.
There is a loophole in the 2007 law that allows incandescent bulbs to continue to be manufactured or imported for decorative bulb designs only. My desk lamp fits that description so even though I will never use incandescents again, I could get replacement Reveal lamps.
Similarly, the old tubular fluorescent ceiling fixtures we all know and love have also been impacted by the laws. The older technology uses T12 lamps that are 1.5 inches in diameter driven by a magnetic ballast. Very energy inefficient. Newer T8 (1 inch dia) and T5 (5/8 inch dia) driven by electronic ballasts are far superior in energy efficiency. The law has forbidden the manufacture or import of the old tech T12 lamps and once the warehouse supplies of replacements run out, people will be forced to upgrade.
You can say what you want about these newer light bulbs, but they have allowed us to reduce energy consumption dramatically and are actually a good deal when you look at the energy savings and the fact they last so much longer than the old carp.
Hope that helps.
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LED lighting has come a long way since it first came upon the market. In the industry I was in (aerospace), we saw the future and beat all our competitors into the LED market. The different types available now for home or commercial lighting should fill anyone's needs if they research properly. Cheers, RickO
" Newer T8 (1 inch dia) and T5 (5/8 inch dia) driven by electronic ballasts are far superior in energy efficiency"
I was in the electrical wholesaling business, I retired about 8 years ago. The electronic ballast at that time had a very short life cycle when compared to the old ballast.
Hopefully by now they are lasting longer. LED is way to go, I see more and more being used, even for site lighting.
Good by HPS.
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Went to Home Depot today. After reading the comments and recommendations, I decided to go LED. Had some coins with me to see what they would look like under the light. To me there is very little difference between the old bulb and the new. Thanks guys for your help.
Recently I had a Morgan dollar which was really nice, the show guy I got it from said it just had some glue on the surface that probably could be solvent removed. I looked at it under the usual light and a magnifier without seeing what it was. Finally I took it to a shop where the dealer got out his 60X magnifier with built in light and it became clear that it was actually the metal that had been damaged. I know Swiatek recommended magnifiers with built in point source lights. Probably too cumbersome for volume, but could be useful on close examination projects.
I use three , a 5000k color temperature OSRAM LED (8.5W) 60 watt equivalent. works well.
or a GE revel 60w incandescent (75W to 100W is way to much for comfort) also for another look an Ottlite 13W flourescent.
Halogens will cause all coins to look bad and to much use so close and reflective off the coin can accelerate cataract growth.
That's news to me. When I started out trying to out-guess the grading services in 1988, I went with the Halogen set up as they were being used by many of the top dealers/best known graders buying out of auction at that time. It seemed pretty wide spread and had no problem grading consistently well with them looking at raw coins. To the best of my knowledge, TPG's were using them too, which was why everyone else jumped in....to duplicate their exact dark room + lighting. If I'm wrong, Colonel Jessup or Mr. Eureka can correct me. I dragged by Halogen light to every Stacks and B&M auction back then as well as to major shows.
These days I don't see many Halogen set ups out there. With most of the good coins now entombed in slabs, the game is to grade accurately through plastic to assess crackouts/regrades. I don't see why Halogen lighting would not still work very well for grading raw MS/PF coinage though. I still have my setup but haven't used it since the mid-1990's. Like I said, these days we all grade through plastic. And the most important thing is to find a dark room w/o interfering light sources. A 100 watt incandescent can work fine in that situation. I cracked out many hundreds of coins from home back in 1988-1989 using the Halogen. So it's not like it can't be used for that.
Flourescent lights of any kind have never been good for me. If you can't spot wear with regular lighting, you have problems. It's not like there's some critical point of minute wear showing up on an AU 59.99 coin where everyone magically declares it "worn," and such a point is accentuated under flourescent lights. If you don't have full luster or full mirrors, then you have some friction or rubbing....and flour. lights are quite lousy for determining if you have 90-95% luster vs. 100%. They make shiny cleaned surfaces look mint state proof like. What matters more is the overall luster and eye appeal. Tiny rubs being a primary factor in AU58 vs. MS61 went out the window 15-20 years ago when the first major round of gradeflation occurred with TPG slabs. These days, the tiny rubs on 19th century type coins show up on MS62-MS65 specimens. "Determining" wear and then assigning a grade on that feature alone is so 1970's.
You are correct: "These days I don't see many Halogen set ups out there." As far as I know you will not see them at a major TPGS either. Anyone know about CAC?
Perhaps every coin you grade is thru plastic but I don't. Also, I is a good bet that most coins graded by the TPGS are NOT viewed thru plastic.
I agree with your statement: "If you can't spot wear with regular lighting, you have problems." That's why those "rubs" from decades ago that you mention above were ignored. Most professionals did not see them. Consequently, as Dave Bowers wrote years ago, many coins formerly graded AU are now graded low mint state. Besides a looser standard and the fact that customers wanted Uncirculated coins, professionals had a hard time seeing friction wear on the high spots of coins due to the glare from bright lighting. Additionally, they could get richer by just ignoring them and educating the new generation of collectors that loss of full luster was not important. As you know, in some coin series, true mint state coins hardly exist.
While I'll agree that no one of influence cares if a coin judged to be Mint State is actually an AU lacking full mint luster, that is a personal choice and a choice made every day at TPGS's. I say to each their own. You have demonstrated by your post a thorough knowledge of what goes on in the "real world." Your opinion is discussed in in every grading seminar I've been in through the years. I prefer coins with no "cabinet friction" that are labeled and priced at the same grade as the technical AU's.
Finally, you might wish to take a look at the relief on some of your BU coins using florescent light in a dark room. I'm very selective so I use it in addition to incandescent light.
I'm not sure that would help me any. I'm already aware that even a MS66 CBH or a MS67 No Motto seated half will likely show minute friction on the high points. It doesn't mean they aren't superb monsters with 99.9% original mint luster. They end up being priced accordingly on the MS60 to MS69 scale. I grade MS64 and up 19th and early 20th century silver and gold by luster and marks, for the most part ignoring minutia on high point surfaces. I will pay more attention to the luster on the coin's flat rims than say at the very peak of Liberty's knee or breasts.
I find an LED flashlight very useful for examining coins, as it will bring out every mark and hairline. it is so uncompromising, being point-source, that it can make a normal circ coin look cleaned, so you have to realize the limitations.
This is a result of the packaging, not the technology. I use daylight LEDs for my photos. Polaroid 100W-equivalent, but I'll probably have to replace them. Turns out they have an unauthorized UL mark on them and the porcelain base is prone to getting hot and spontaneously shattering.
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That's what I said goes on in the real world of 2017! Luster - most important to a coin's eye appeal, then marks, then strike. Today, even coins not fully struck are graded 65 rather than the 64 max of previous "standards**."
** "Standards"...LOL! Standards are supposed to be fixed or they are not standards.
PS I'm very impressed that you look at a coin's rims. IMO, besides spreading knowledge on the Internet forms, you should teach.