Well, this is a little concerning....

jerseycat101

.

bolivarshagnasty

It's happening with other series as well.

lcoopie

your point??

jerseycat101

If you can't discern my "point" from the information provided, I can't help you.

lcoopie

@jerseycat101 said:
If you can't discern my "point" from the information provided, I can't help you.

I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you. Please ignore my post. I'm obviously over my head in your thread.

drfish

His point is from the photos provided by the eBay seller those Peace dollars all look to be artificially toned and recently straight graded by PCGS

morgansforever

I'm guessing they were toned in the slab?

lcoopie

@drfish said:
His point is from the photos provided by the eBay seller those Peace dollars all look to be artificially toned and recently straight graded by PCGS

I appreciate your imput @drfish, thank you.

UtahCoin

Ugly.

sparky64

@lcoopie said:
your point??

+1

Potentially a great thread but I wasn't exactly sure either.

Boosibri

Those are horrible

lcoopie

@sparky64 said:

@lcoopie said:
your point??

+1

Potentially a great thread but I wasn't exactly sure either.

I agree, but I feel inadequate to post in this thread and I apologize to the op for doing so.

UtahCoin

The seller is edynamicmarketing. I looked at his 2000+ completed auctions, most are toned coins. They range from the most ugly AT coins you'll ever see, to a handful of legit looking toners. Many are raw, I suspect those may have been body bagged by the TPG. NGC, PCGS, ANACs holders, Morgans to modern....

keets

JMHO, and hoping my intelligence level doesn't eject me from the thread.

I only checked one cert and it was what it is. I will assume that the pictures are highly saturated with light and that the coins don't really look like we think they do. the trouble, for me, is that it is hard to judge pictures and the slabs look OK to me. I think I see the new anti-counterfeit diagnostics on these slabs which would mean they are legit.

as far as them being gassed in the holder, I don't think so. I would expect to see brilliance in the areas where the gasket holds the coin and tone where the coin is free of the gasket, not the opposite. that leaves one of two things --- they are toned OK and just look bad ---or--- they are AT and got by PCGS.

Walkerfan

Those coins are ruined imho.

Can't imagine paying up for them, too.

lcoopie

@keets , I am also not familiar with the new slab diagnostics asides from my very poor mind reading abilities, so if you can point me there it may add to my knowledge base.

lcoopie

@jerseycat101 said:
If you can't discern my "point" from the information provided, I can't help you.

I said , I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you. Please ignore my post. I'm obviously over my head in your thread.

You may be impressed, but I was able to detect that you deleted your response to me, so I guess I am learning, though at a very limited pace.

edited

My mistake, your posts were ghosted out , they were not deleted.

jerseycat101

@lcoopie said:

@lcoopie said:

@jerseycat101 said:
If you can't discern my "point" from the information provided, I can't help you.

I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you. Please ignore my post. I'm obviously over my head in your thread.

@lcoopie said:

@jerseycat101 said:
If you can't discern my "point" from the information provided, I can't help you.

I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you. Please ignore my post. I'm obviously over my head in your thread.

I was able to notice you deleted your second post so I guess I am learning, though very slowly.

I haven't deleted anything, although I do accept your apology for making a mockery of my thread.

lcoopie

You are correct, I just didn't notice your post, so my learning must have taken a step back. Perhaps next time someone tries to understand what you are saying you may give them the courtesy of a response instead of assuming some kind of an air of superiority.

I have no doubt that many here know more than me, actually, that is why I am here.

jerseycat101

@lcoopie said:
You are correct, I just didn't notice your post, so my learning must have taken a step back. Perhaps next time someone tries to understand what you are saying you may give them the courtesy of a response instead of assuming some kind of an air of superiority.

I have no doubt that many here know more than me, actually, that is why I am here.

Fair enough. On your end, if you dont understand the context of my post, how about asking nicely instead of rudely and curtly stating, "Your Point?".

nk1nk

I'm shocked those got by PCGS. The same seller has a few Morgan's with similar toning.

georgiacop50

Seller has been gassing slabs for quite a while now.

SkyMan

I have been shocked by the amount of (IMO) AT coins that I've seen at shows over the last couple years in both major TPG's more recently graded slabs (say the last two years). I'm HOPING this is just the current level of the market cycle, as I've seen both major TPG's gone through periods of tightening and loosening what they will accept for toning.

grip

No more than melt. All rainbow ?

MICHAELDIXON

WOW! I am totally surprised that these got past PCGS. Blatant AT jobs!

crazyhounddog

The seller is edynamicmarketing. I looked at his 2000+ completed auctions, most are toned coins. They range from the most ugly AT coins you'll ever see, to a handful of legit looking toners. Many are raw, I suspect those may have been body bagged by the TPG. NGC, PCGS, ANACs holders, Morgans to modern....

I totally agree my friend. This seller has some of thee worst artificially toned coins I've even seen. In my opinion he is a scam, and a bad one at that. As far as these images the OP is showing is another example of "Juiced" images. Just my opinion of course. It's either that or it's something more sinister by this seller. NOT pcgs. Just my opinion going by his other listings. My advice is stay the hell away from this dude

bolivarshagnasty

There are others getting blatant AT stuff through PCGS. Not just this guy. This is an issue in the grading room and how they are determining NT/AT.

gtstang

Found online

TwoKopeiki

@gtstang said:
Found online

Well that's interesting...

sparky64

Busted!

Zoins

What can be done about these?

Type2

Just say no.

nk1nk

Hmm! That is very interesting. Gtstang, where did you find those pictures?

Justacommeman

Not that concerned. Those are ugly. Whoever buys these deserves what they get.

mark

ChrisH821

If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.

(EDIT: Links removed because they were no longer valid)

All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

crazyhounddog

@ChrisH821 said:
If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.
1923
1922
1923-s
All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

Great work ChrisH821
Not even the same coins. They've been Photoshopped into the slabs by this eBay scammer. This guy should be put in jail for fraud.

davewesen

@crazyhounddog said:

@ChrisH821 said:
If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.
1923
1922
1923-s
All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

Great work ChrisH821
Not even the same coins. They've been Photoshopped into the slabs by this eBay scammer. This guy should be put in jail for fraud.

the marks on the 1922 are the same

ChrisH821

It appears they are the same coins, although it's hard to tell through all the environmental damage they have applied. On the 23-s there is a distinct mark above the O in dollar, on the 1923 the fingerprint under Trust is on both, and on the 1922 the marks on the eagle's back and the scuff on liberty's neck into the hair is the same on both.

crazyhounddog

What happened to the distinctive toning? In one slab they are white. In this seller images they are toned. What's with that?

MonsterCoinz

It's been proven several times that he AT's coins after they're slabbed. I think there's a legal case to be made here if PCGS is at all concerned with their grades being misrepresented.

It's very obviously AT if you've seen any of the other coins he's listed. Almost every single coin he sells - whether it's silver, clad, copper, modern or classic - all have the same type of chromatics, color transition, appearance etc.

ChrisH821

I'll just leave this one here too.
ANACS 1922 White
edynamic's ANACS 1922
And it still has the goo left on the back of the slab from removing the sticker from the original seller lol this guy is shameless

EDIT: Links in this post are no good either.

crazyhounddog

@davewesen said:

@crazyhounddog said:

@ChrisH821 said:
If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.
1923
1922
1923-s
All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

Great work ChrisH821
Not even the same coins. They've been Photoshopped into the slabs by this eBay scammer. This guy should be put in jail for fraud.

the marks on the 1922 are the same

Am I missing something here? I see three coins, in the seller link that are toned. Now I see another link with the same slab numbers with coins in them with no toning at all.. What's up?

ChrisH821

@crazyhounddog said:

@davewesen said:

@crazyhounddog said:

@ChrisH821 said:
If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.
1923
1922
1923-s
All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

Great work ChrisH821
Not even the same coins. They've been Photoshopped into the slabs by this eBay scammer. This guy should be put in jail for fraud.

the marks on the 1922 are the same

Am I missing something here? I see three coins, in the seller link that are toned. Now I see another link with the same slab numbers with coins in them with no toning at all.. What's up?

They are somehow "toning" them in the slabs.

ChrisH821

Man I love google...
Original Note that this listing expired on the 13th of this month, 10 days ago
Edynamics special

DRUNNER

Interesting . . .

I had a discussion with 'one of the top 5 submitters by volume to PCGS nationwide' (submitter's words) this weekend, and he mentioned the latest scam for PCGS was "microdrilling" of the slab and then gassing it after the owner receives the coin back. The hole is virtually impossible to detect but is quite effective in allowing the gas to pass through to tone the coin.

Considering the nature of the source I have and the history of the submitter, back to the early 1990s . . . . I have no doubt he is quite accurate and we can derail the red herrings on this thread right now and focus on how we deal with this latest infringement on the PCGS mark.

Drunner

crazyhounddog

@ChrisH821 said:

@crazyhounddog said:

@davewesen said:

@crazyhounddog said:

@ChrisH821 said:
If only ebay had a way to search by certification number...
Edit: Apparently going to google and searching "ebay cert number" kinda works.
1923
1922
1923-s
All 3 sold by r_coin_shop

Great work ChrisH821
Not even the same coins. They've been Photoshopped into the slabs by this eBay scammer. This guy should be put in jail for fraud.

the marks on the 1922 are the same

Am I missing something here? I see three coins, in the seller link that are toned. Now I see another link with the same slab numbers with coins in them with no toning at all.. What's up?

They are somehow "toning" them in the slabs.

I think hes doing something else. I don 't think toning them in the slab can be done. I sure don't know everything. But I'm skeptical about that one.

gtstang

Are they using some kind of laser to "microdrill". If they use a bit, I imagine they could drill the side of the slab and fill and Polish it back to hide the drill spot?

ricko

Definitely doctored in the slab....not difficult to do....drill, gas and fill.... then sell....research may be the only way to combat this.. and most buyers will not take the time. Cheers, RickO

jerseycat101

Th> @gtstang said:

Found online

Nice work!

Hopefully PCGS acts on this aggressively.

DoubleEagle59

Beautiful AT coins.

I hope someone spent a lot of money for those coins and for grading.

It's good for the economy and that's about all they're good for.

1Bustcollector

I can agree that if someone micro drilled a hole, applied gas, refilled the hole and polished the "outside top of the hole" this repair may all sound pretty good except I think it would be difficult to polish the inside tubular walls of said drilled hole. Plus, injecting an polished "fill" into the hole might be difficult Unless it is liquid and in either case, this fill just knows exactly when to stop at the inside "end" perfectly??? (It's open, so no dripping past the inside plane? Maybe they can liquid fill from bottom up.

I know they can repair glass windshields with liquid repair just about undetectable but that's only on the top layer, not the underside layer.