Grading $20 gold

Danye West

What makes this coin a PCGS MS63? It looks like it's got very few scratches and great luster. Is this just a series that is very conservatively graded?

Baley

Looks awfully nice for a 63 from those ideally-taken pictures.



I'd wager that if it's graded 63, taking a glass to the fields will explain it,

I think I can see some patches of friction here and there that might add up to a point or two

VanHalen

My interpretation of those images would be that they do not reflect the coin in-hand. The truth is MS63 $20 Libs can be pretty beat up so no, this series does not appear to be conservatively graded in most instances.

CascadeChris

If your pics are correct, While the cheek is relatively clean aside from a few light marks the amount of abbrasions on the obverse field overroad the cheek and pushed it from a 64 down to a 63 is my guess

10000lakes

This coin sold recently. The auction description notes that it graded 63 on the first time.

Pop 1 coin in highest PCGS grade, they probably were conservative.





Auction link

bolivarshagnasty

Hairlines in the obverse fields.

oldlinecoins

Originally posted by: VanHalen

My interpretation of those images would be that they do not reflect the coin in-hand

+1



Obverse fields especially seem to be scratchier than the photos lead on

BryceM

I bet if you saw it in hand, you'd see it as a 63 too.



I've not seen the coin, but I bet it works out something like this:



Luster MS65/66.

Strike is 65/66 (slight softness to a couple of star centers).

Surfaces - Loads of hairlines in the fields, likely mostly obscured with this photo technique (borderline cleaned?) = MS63

Eye appeal - excellent at first glace, but again, limited by the distractions in the fields = MS63/64.



CoinFacts lists 19 Uncirculated coins from both TPGs (likely fewer with re-submissions) but only 1 nicer than MS62. The status of this coin as the finest known is more important than the exact numerical grade.

topstuf

steveben

Originally posted by: BryceM

I bet if you saw it in hand, you'd see it as a 63 too.



I've not seen the coin, but I bet it works out something like this:



Luster MS65/66.

Strike is 65/66 (slight softness to a couple of star centers).

Surfaces - Loads of hairlines in the fields, likely mostly obscured with this photo technique (borderline cleaned?) = MS63

Eye appeal - excellent at first glace, but again, limited by the distractions in the fields = MS63/64.



CoinFacts lists 19 Uncirculated coins from both TPGs (likely fewer with re-submissions) but only 1 nicer than MS62. The status of this coin as the finest known is more important than the exact numerical grade.

hard to grade by photos...but i think you nailed it.

Danye West

Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

Hairlines in the obverse fields.

Didn't notice those were hairlines. Looked like die polish to me. The picture probably doesn't hilight that flaw. Mystery solved.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

ricko

Agree with 63 due to the hairlines and marks above the head and the tip of the neckline...also behind the head... the reverse is really nice.... Cheers, RickO

thebeav

Originally posted by: Baley
Looks awfully nice for a 63 from those ideally-taken pictures.

That's what I was thinking. That pic almost looks 'photo shopped'.....

messydesk

Originally posted by: BryceM

I bet if you saw it in hand, you'd see it as a 63 too.



I've not seen the coin, but I bet it works out something like this:



Luster MS65/66.

Strike is 65/66 (slight softness to a couple of star centers).

Surfaces - Loads of hairlines in the fields, likely mostly obscured with this photo technique (borderline cleaned?) = MS63

Eye appeal - excellent at first glace, but again, limited by the distractions in the fields = MS63/64.



CoinFacts lists 19 Uncirculated coins from both TPGs (likely fewer with re-submissions) but only 1 nicer than MS62. The status of this coin as the finest known is more important than the exact numerical grade.

This. The coin's 63ness probably becomes apparent when you tip it around in the light and look at surfaces with a glass.

jdimmick

About 4 years ago, when I sold the store front, about a week before, I had a family come up with a complete set of 20's (missing only the 54-0, 56-0, and 27-d) Some of the coins were xf'ish and one or two possibly not gradeable, but there were also some showstoppers. I remember the 51-o twenty and it was breathtaking, if it ever shows up, it will be the current finest none I can assure you. The 21 saint was also condition census.(absolute smoker) It was unbelievable the quality of some of the coins in this set, as well as how almost complete it was. I never knew what happen to them , as I have never herd back from them in all this time. I don't think they needed the funds and wanted to keep the coins, as they also inherited a ton of money and property.

see ing this 51-o made me think about it because it is not even close to a coin out there somewhere. And I am not knocking this coin at all, it looks nice!

asheland

from those ideally-taken pictures.

That


I can see a lot of bag marks in there although that picture blends them well!

logger7

I bought a better date ICG coin around 2000 in MS62, 74-s graded MS62. Try as I might in the holder out of the holder PCGS and NGC called it MS61. Hairlines, same as in this case that can easily knock a near gem down to 61/62 or no grade.

Insider2

Virtually every time an attractive coin as this that looks "gem" is in a 62-63 holder, the hairlines are borderline "Details" and the TPGS lets it slide.

roadrunner

That coin has very few hits for a 63. It looks more like a 65 based on hits/bagmarks. So the only way that gets a 63 grade is if the luster is impaired and/or lots of hairlines from cleaning/wiping.



This 1851-0 $20 also has the look of a presentation piece. Either that or extreme juicing of the photo.

BillJones

Some auction houses can play games with the marks on coins in their pictures. I've learned that the hard way.

northcoin

Originally posted by: BillJones
Some auction houses can play games with the marks on coins in their pictures. I've learned that the hard way.

If the OP's photos are of the same coin as shown in the Goldberg Aucition link then it is amazing how those scratches in the left field of the obverse vanished and only a few are seen at 2-O-Clock in the auction photo.

What is equally thought provoking is how little difference there can be between a "cleaned" coin that only gets a Details grade and one that can be graded finest known as a MS-63.

By the way did the coin sell, and if so at what price?