There is no doubt that people are paying premiums for the gold sticker.... many - not all - rely on slabs and stickers since their grading skills are - shall we say - minimal. Knowledgeable collectors are capitalizing on the 'perception' of gold stickers meaning certain upgrades and attaching their own premium... often above the imagined next grade up... It is all marketing ladies and gentlemen.... Cheers, RickO
I only have 1 cac gold, its a PCGS 55 Gold 1810 large cent, easily a 62BN today, and worth every cent. Exceptional coin in every respect.
Honestly, with the exception of (1) 1851 3 cent silver, every single cac gold coin I have seen has been quite nice
A few years ago I was bidding on an 1854-D $3.00 PCGS VF-35 Gold CAC, it went for au-55 money (which it would regrade at if submitted, I didn't win it but tried.
you should post photos of these. i bet they are really nice.
Neither of those gold coins above deserve a gold sticker in my opinion. They look accurately graded to me. the 1848 $5 I think is lucky to have a sticker at all.
I already said I believe they are accurately graded by PCGS. Not deserving of the Gold CAC sticker. Maybe not even a green one.
Even using the Red Book description of an XF40 1848-D $5 Eagle it seems to fir the grade. There is plenty of wear on the highest points. XF 40 is correct.
On the $3 Gold. Nothing shows me that its better than an average XF45. The crust makes me think it correctly graded even more.
Those are not good examples of Gold CAC coin in my opinion.
the 48-D is a variety known for a weak strike. there there are scant higher grade examples that exhibit the same strike. you are grading it as wear as well as pcgs did many years ago.
the 59 is considered the finest known. more then one expert agrees.
the $3 already upgraded two grades at pcgs...so your opinion is in the minority (among experts) about it being average xf45.
Is there a risk of the gold (or even green) stickers on EBay advertised coins being counterfeit? It would seem if the Chinese have been able to create fake slabs for the top tier grading services, it would be even easier to do so for something attached to the slab. I ask this assuming that JA has some kind of database that one could check against to guarantee authenticity, but the risk would still be there for the buyer not aware of such, yes?
Is there a risk of the gold (or even green) stickers on EBay advertised coins being counterfeit? It would seem if the Chinese have been able to create fake slabs for the top tier grading services, it would be even easier to do so for something attached to the slab. I ask this assuming that JA has some kind of database that one could check against to guarantee authenticity, but the risk would still be there for the buyer not aware of such, yes?
Yes, they have a searchable database of CAC certified coins:
What I find amusing (sarcasm) are the dealers who do not recognize the CAC stickers when buying the coin, but will turn the tables when selling the coin because of the CAC sticker. Same thing with varieties.
I've read this thread the last few days. Just now have some time to put some thoughts to paper.
First things first though: Roadrunner!
No gold CACs. But my best CAC gold candidate was sold 2 months ago to a fellow forum member who bought it from me before I ever bothered to try it. Since it was an OGH VF35 better date $10 Indian with 40% luster, and I got XF45 money for it.....it was essentially gold CAC'd between us. A gold bean would still add some value, but not a ton. Still, I'd be curious if this will get a gold sticker someday....just to know exactly what it took...or didn't take.
See pic below:
Here is an example of buying the coin. Not the holder. Not the sticker. Brian and I obviously recognized the coin as special and high end. I paid him as such and am very happy with the coin. I don't really care if it didn't get a gold sticker. I just care about owning it. Do you know how freaking hard it is to find Indian Eagles that look like this? SUPER tough! Please find me more! Why did I have it stickered then? Well, because it makes the coin more liquid.
I personally see CAC as filling two roles for advanced collectors and an additional role for novice collectors. For advanced guys, CAC does this:
1. It makes the coin more liquid. Like it or not, a CAC'd coin is easier to sell than a non CAC coin. You instantly know the base price as well based on JA's bid. CAC is liquidity.
2. It gives any collector another set of expert eyes in a hobby that is filled with immense pitfalls, even in holders. Do I trust my eye? You bet I do. I feel very comfortable grading coins for the most part. A big chunk of my collection was purchased raw. Do I know that I have weaknesses in certain series and in other disciplines? Absolutely. Does John Albanese know more than I do? 100% certain of that.
3. For novice collectors, it shows them what they should be looking for and provides a grading lesson.
Is it perfect? Of course not. JA, BS and company are human so stuff happens, but they are backing it up with a published bid. For them it is a service and a great business model. Genius.
Here is another coin that I bought in a non NGC/PCGS slab. It was graded VF30. Mama! Cracked it out, got an AU53 and now has a bean. Searching for toned eagles is so much fun!
This one I bought at ANA out of the auction. Did I pay stupid money for it? Go to Heritage and be the judge. I graded the coin AU53 and FG (that stands for F@#$ing Gorgeous).
Did I bid because of the sticker. No. Did it give me some assurance that someone else thought it was awesome too? Yes. I wish I could have bought the dang thing raw... Did I bid it up above what it was worth? Maybe....but it was because the coin was awesome and I know how hard it is to find attractive RE halves, especially in circ grades. Do ebay sellers take advantage of this? Probably....but this market has seen and will see worse travesties. At least they will be getting a great coin 99% of the time.
Finally, my CAC submission I got back today. Submitted 44 total coins. 24 I had marked as coins I would definitely sticker. 18 came back green. 2 gold. 4 no bean. 83% aint' half bad. The other 20 I thought were tweeners but worth submitting. Why? Read above...liquidity!! Of those 20, 9 beans, 11 no.
Here are pics of the two golds. Pretty coins....both reverse toners with killer luster. Sorry for no reverse pics.
CoinLT, I'm glad you sent in that 1908-s. At least now we know....how difficult it is to get the gold bean. I'd have figured this coin as a 75% or better "sure thing." While that coin is XF all day long, JA has to leave some meat on the bone when he goes out to buy stickered coins. I guess we're both buyers of VF30/35 gold coins that have 40-50% original luster....even if they only green bean. I suspect if the 08-s went gold, it would have been worth another 10-20%. And maybe that was too much. Next step? Crack it out or have it regraded. If it comes back 40/45 you can still get a green bean on it.
And to keep things fair, I offered the 1908-s to John at a price that would give me a fair and modest profit for holding it 6-7 years. He wanted nothing to do with that and added another 10-12% based on what he felt it was worth. I couldn't really argue with that. But I reduced that by $25 and the deal was made....just by some so-so photos I sent him.
And to keep things fair, I offered the 1908-s to John at a price that would give me a fair and modest profit for holding it 6-7 years. He wanted nothing to do with that and added another 10-12% based on what he felt it was worth. I couldn't really argue with that. But I reduced that by $25 and the deal was made....just by some so-so photos I sent him.
I only do that for the submarine force.
Seriously though, thanks for the coin Brian. I love it no matter the bean color.
Don't buy coins with gold beans if you feel they are too expensive. Case solved.
Every gold sticker coin in this thread is undergradsd in my opinion.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Can't wait to read the most likely upcoming post saying the coins in the pics that CoinLt posted, with the gold stickers, "look like they are correctly graded on the slab"
I think they look EXCEPTIONAL! That '84 S$ looks SO CLEAN. Looks better than some MS66 I have, that are definitely MS66.
And, SteveBen.....my gosh you are posting some awesome gold as well!
I looked at thousands of coins between today at LB and at ANA. The majority were not worth a second look IMO. There are so much weak for the grade coins out there that it made my head hurt. Most people will get killed collecting from that pool then they will paying up for a premium coin at a premium price. I believe I saw one gold stickered coin and knew of another.
I also believe collectors in general feel they are better graders then they really are.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I looked at thousands of coins between today at LB and at ANA. The majority were not worth a second look IMO. There are so much weak for the grade coins out there that it made my head hurt. Most people will get killed collecting from that pool then they will paying up for a premium coin at a premium price. I believe I saw one gold stickered coin and knew of another.
I also believe collectors in general feel they are better graders then they really are.
mark
I felt the same at the last few shows I attended as I couldn't find much of anything I even sorta liked.
It's almost like they abandoned Sheldon and went with Keller instead since so many coins look like they had been graded by touch
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
Originally posted by: GotTheBug We need a STRIPED sticker to indicate coins that are at least THREE grades under. Slabs took away the fun of albums Stickers are taking the fun out of slabs.
Next will be taking the fun out of coins in general.
I understand this sentiment completely. The fun wind was going out of my sails a few years ago so I divested myself of 3/4 of my slabbed coins and went back to doing mostly albums. I still have one Registry set going for Seated halves but I get a bigger kick from finding a nice coin to fill a hole in an album....
(Edited for gramer, er grammer, no, make that grammar).
I out grew albums many years ago. I was putting my best coins in custom made Capital Plastics holders before slabs were introduced.
CAC taken some of the joy out of collecting for me. If you listen the CAC addicts, your coin doesn't amount to much if it doesn't have the sticker. Even the Gray Sheet tells us their prices are based on CAC'd coins. That sucks.
The CAC addicts say to me, "Why don't you get your collection reviewed? It doesn't cost that much."
For me it would cost me many thousands of dollars in shipping costs and insurance plus the grading fees, PLUS the risk of having my coins lost in transit, and for what? To have one man, who has too much power in this market in my opinion, to pass judgment on my holdings.
I know I have coins that would not sticker. If know I've others that should. I've seen enough CAC mistakes to know that they are not infallible.
So I'm not messing with CAC until the time comes to sell. Even then it might not be worth it. I've been following some lots in the current Heritage auction. As usual the coins I have picked out are going for strong money, and none of them are CAC'd. Perhaps there are still people out there who don't have to have their hand held when they bid strong money for coins.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Originally posted by: Justacommeman Don't buy coins with gold beans if you feel they are too expensive. Case solved.
Every gold sticker coin in this thread is undergradsd in my opinion.
mark
To give some balance here's a gold CAC coin that isn't under graded. PCGS graded it EF-40. It really is that grade on a net basis because it has hairlines from brushing. And yes, I goofed up when I bought this coin at the price paid. I still love it for the history, however, but I know I'll get creamed when I sell it.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
So I'm not messing with CAC until the time comes to sell.
You don't have to be a believer in the system to use it. Even you Bill, see the benefit.
Remember too that the services were supposed to hold a line when it came to grading to protect collectors. That line has become blurred and CAC is an opportunistic and altruistic mix of the result.
Not everyone dedicated their life to coins like you did. You were a dealer for decades. Therefore you have a knowledge base that exceeds 99% of the community. For those that work a more traditional job, there is no time to become an expert in every market and every series. CAC fills some of that hole.
In the long run, I think all of this shows the signs of a market in decline. Demographics and changing human priorities are going to make for nice buying opportunities in the future...even for the nice coins.
The CAC addicts say to me, "Why don't you get your collection reviewed? It doesn't cost that much."
For me it would cost me many thousands of dollars in shipping costs and insurance plus the grading fees, PLUS the risk of having my coins lost in transit, and for what? To have one man, who has too much power in this market in my opinion, to pass judgment on my holdings.
Other bits aside, that have been hashed/re-hashed ad nauseam, if you are still physically able to travel, and actually wanted your coins possibly stickered, I would think that it would be easier/cheaper/better to take a short trip to CAC-land to get them looked at.
Given some of the pictures you have posted of your coins, I think that JA would love to see them in person and he does have it where people can show up, drop off coins, then pick up.
A few hundred for a plane ticket, a night (or a few if you make it a vacation) in a nice hotel for another hundred or two, some meal money, etc, and for under $700-$800 in costs PLUS stickering costs, it could be done.
Not the "many thousands in shipping costs and insurance".
Also, I'm not sure where the 'many thousands in shipping and insurance" come from as USPS registered can handle quite a bit for $20-$30 (obviously, some of your coins may exceed the normal value and you would have more than 1 package to keep things within that range they expect).
Again, if I were so blessed as to have some of the coins you have posted, and there was any desire to CAC them, I would call CAC and arrange it with me showing up to drop-off/pick-up.
That said, if I had ZERO desire, then I wouldn't do it and I just wouldn't be commenting on CAC stuff as I would ignore it.
billjones, i think that coin is very nice. i don't see any problems with it. bechtler coins are much different that other gold coins in almost every respect: planchets, dies, strikes, precious metal content, etc. perhaps there are hairlines on that coin, but you have to ask yourself...is it worth a premium over it's peers (in the same grade). i am betting with that color the answer is yes.
coinlieutenant: very nice examples! the 39-O is waaaay better than most examples of this coin in circulated grades. i viewed this coin even though it's not in the series i collect...not because of the sticker...but because LOOK at that coin! the eye appeal is amazing.
i have seen some CAC gold that did not have the type of eye appeal i like...and i have passed on them. the stickers get me attention but the choice to plunk down the money all comes down to the look of the coin.
thx to lkeigwin, et al, for positive comments. i am glad to see more gold cac photos in this thread.
Most of the coins I buy come stickered. It just works out that way. I'm going to take the balance to CAC soon ( I've never submitted). I'm doing this mostly because if I get hit by a bus soon I want my family to get full value. I'm sure the dealers that will be dispersing my collection will take care of this if I don't but I ain't taking any chances. Besides I'm curious
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
This, to me, should ....repeat "SHOULD"....be a temporary phenomenon until all this hoopla blows over. EVERY hoopla blows over. The most DURABLE has been the slab concept itself.
Other bits aside, that have been hashed/re-hashed ad nauseam, if you are still physically able to travel, and actually wanted your coins possibly stickered, I would think that it would be easier/cheaper/better to take a short trip to CAC-land to get them looked at.
Not a short trip and not one that most people would even consider given the sums involved.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Since folks are showing their gold beaned examples, here is mine, as I noted in my previous post, using PCGS photograde online this is 55 for wear, and the surfaces and luster are consistent with this grade as well, although it compares well to 58's for this date and mintmark I can find images of.
This, to me, should ....repeat "SHOULD"....be a temporary phenomenon until all this hoopla blows over. EVERY hoopla blows over. The most DURABLE has been the slab concept itself.
That's all.
And it's because I was looking in the wrong thread.
Nice coin Spacehayduke, and maybe actually a 58, likely at NGC, as people know, it is harder to get that grade at PCGS. Plus you have the branch mint weaker strikes, etc.; many of those ended up upgrading from XF to AU, etc. according to Doug Winter. http://raregoldcoins.com/blog/...or-and-choice-surfaces
Originally posted by: logger7 Nice coin Spacehayduke, and maybe actually a 58, likely at NGC, as people know, it is harder to get that grade at PCGS. Plus you have the branch mint weaker strikes, etc.; many of those ended up upgrading from XF to AU, etc. according to Doug Winter.
Thanks for the thoughts on the coin. I am not sure it is easier to get a 58 at NGC vs. PCGS for a given coin and perhaps this one. Not my experience judging by submissions to both and the ratio of several hundred submissions to CAC that beaned for both TPG's. The stats show at least for my collection, there seems to be no difference between NGC and PCGS in terms of beaning or not, consistent with similar grading for both. I graded the coin visually vs. PCGS photograde online which does not take into account weak strike issues on some dates, etc., and it comes out a 55. I am not sure this is a year at Dahlonega that had strike issues.
Since this one is not going to leave its current holder as long as I own it, we will never know what it would grade again at least during its tenure with me. But it would be an interesting test to send it raw independently to both TPGs.
Comments
I only have 1 cac gold, its a PCGS 55 Gold 1810 large cent, easily a 62BN today, and worth every cent. Exceptional coin in every respect.
Honestly, with the exception of (1) 1851 3 cent silver, every single cac gold coin I have seen has been quite nice
A few years ago I was bidding on an 1854-D $3.00 PCGS VF-35 Gold CAC, it went for au-55 money (which it would regrade at if submitted, I didn't win it but tried.
you should post photos of these. i bet they are really nice.
this one upgraded to au53 and green beaned.
Gold stickers on XF coins is tricky. So what grade should they be? Much easier to figure them out on an MS66 coin for instance.
Even using the Red Book description of an XF40 1848-D $5 Eagle it seems to fir the grade. There is plenty of wear on the highest points. XF 40 is correct.
On the $3 Gold. Nothing shows me that its better than an average XF45. The crust makes me think it correctly graded even more.
Those are not good examples of Gold CAC coin in my opinion.
the 48-D is a variety known for a weak strike. there there are scant higher grade examples that exhibit the same strike. you are grading it as wear as well as pcgs did many years ago.
the 59 is considered the finest known. more then one expert agrees.
the $3 already upgraded two grades at pcgs...so your opinion is in the minority (among experts) about it being average xf45.
Tom
Is there a risk of the gold (or even green) stickers on EBay advertised coins being counterfeit? It would seem if the Chinese have been able to create fake slabs for the top tier grading services, it would be even easier to do so for something attached to the slab. I ask this assuming that JA has some kind of database that one could check against to guarantee authenticity, but the risk would still be there for the buyer not aware of such, yes?
Yes, they have a searchable database of CAC certified coins:
Link
What I find amusing (sarcasm) are the dealers who do not recognize the CAC stickers when buying the coin, but will turn the tables when selling the coin because of the CAC sticker. Same thing with varieties.
Oh, g'wan. I don't bleeve that!
First things first though: Roadrunner!
See pic below:
Here is an example of buying the coin. Not the holder. Not the sticker. Brian and I obviously recognized the coin as special and high end. I paid him as such and am very happy with the coin. I don't really care if it didn't get a gold sticker. I just care about owning it. Do you know how freaking hard it is to find Indian Eagles that look like this? SUPER tough! Please find me more! Why did I have it stickered then? Well, because it makes the coin more liquid.
I personally see CAC as filling two roles for advanced collectors and an additional role for novice collectors. For advanced guys, CAC does this:
1. It makes the coin more liquid. Like it or not, a CAC'd coin is easier to sell than a non CAC coin. You instantly know the base price as well based on JA's bid. CAC is liquidity.
2. It gives any collector another set of expert eyes in a hobby that is filled with immense pitfalls, even in holders. Do I trust my eye? You bet I do. I feel very comfortable grading coins for the most part. A big chunk of my collection was purchased raw. Do I know that I have weaknesses in certain series and in other disciplines? Absolutely. Does John Albanese know more than I do? 100% certain of that.
3. For novice collectors, it shows them what they should be looking for and provides a grading lesson.
Is it perfect? Of course not. JA, BS and company are human so stuff happens, but they are backing it up with a published bid. For them it is a service and a great business model. Genius.
Here is another coin that I bought in a non NGC/PCGS slab. It was graded VF30. Mama! Cracked it out, got an AU53 and now has a bean. Searching for toned eagles is so much fun!
This one I bought at ANA out of the auction. Did I pay stupid money for it? Go to Heritage and be the judge. I graded the coin AU53 and FG (that stands for F@#$ing Gorgeous).
Did I bid because of the sticker. No. Did it give me some assurance that someone else thought it was awesome too? Yes. I wish I could have bought the dang thing raw...
Finally, my CAC submission I got back today. Submitted 44 total coins. 24 I had marked as coins I would definitely sticker. 18 came back green. 2 gold. 4 no bean. 83% aint' half bad. The other 20 I thought were tweeners but worth submitting. Why? Read above...liquidity!! Of those 20, 9 beans, 11 no.
Here are pics of the two golds. Pretty coins....both reverse toners with killer luster. Sorry for no reverse pics.
siliconvalleycoins.com
And to keep things fair, I offered the 1908-s to John at a price that would give me a fair and modest profit for holding it 6-7 years. He wanted nothing to do with that and added another 10-12% based on what he felt it was worth. I couldn't really argue with that. But I reduced that by $25 and the deal was made....just by some so-so photos I sent him.
this thread needs more photos
I love this coin. Steveben, you're killing us with gorgeous examples.
Lance.
I only do that for the submarine force.
Seriously though, thanks for the coin Brian. I love it no matter the bean color.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Every gold sticker coin in this thread is undergradsd in my opinion.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think they look EXCEPTIONAL! That '84 S$ looks SO CLEAN. Looks better than some MS66 I have, that are definitely MS66.
And, SteveBen.....my gosh you are posting some awesome gold as well!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I also believe collectors in general feel they are better graders then they really are.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I looked at thousands of coins between today at LB and at ANA. The majority were not worth a second look IMO. There are so much weak for the grade coins out there that it made my head hurt. Most people will get killed collecting from that pool then they will paying up for a premium coin at a premium price. I believe I saw one gold stickered coin and knew of another.
I also believe collectors in general feel they are better graders then they really are.
mark
I felt the same at the last few shows I attended as I couldn't find much of anything I even sorta liked.
It's almost like they abandoned Sheldon and went with Keller instead since so many coins look like they had been graded by touch
We need a STRIPED sticker to indicate coins that are at least THREE grades under.
Slabs took away the fun of albums
Stickers are taking the fun out of slabs.
Next will be taking the fun out of coins in general.
I understand this sentiment completely. The fun wind was going out of my sails a few years ago so I divested myself of 3/4 of my slabbed coins and went back to doing mostly albums. I still have one Registry set going for Seated halves but I get a bigger kick from finding a nice coin to fill a hole in an album....
(Edited for gramer, er grammer, no, make that grammar).
I out grew albums many years ago. I was putting my best coins in custom made Capital Plastics holders before slabs were introduced.
CAC taken some of the joy out of collecting for me. If you listen the CAC addicts, your coin doesn't amount to much if it doesn't have the sticker. Even the Gray Sheet tells us their prices are based on CAC'd coins. That sucks.
The CAC addicts say to me, "Why don't you get your collection reviewed? It doesn't cost that much."
For me it would cost me many thousands of dollars in shipping costs and insurance plus the grading fees, PLUS the risk of having my coins lost in transit, and for what? To have one man, who has too much power in this market in my opinion, to pass judgment on my holdings.
I know I have coins that would not sticker. If know I've others that should. I've seen enough CAC mistakes to know that they are not infallible.
So I'm not messing with CAC until the time comes to sell. Even then it might not be worth it. I've been following some lots in the current Heritage auction. As usual the coins I have picked out are going for strong money, and none of them are CAC'd. Perhaps there are still people out there who don't have to have their hand held when they bid strong money for coins.
Don't buy coins with gold beans if you feel they are too expensive. Case solved.
Every gold sticker coin in this thread is undergradsd in my opinion.
mark
To give some balance here's a gold CAC coin that isn't under graded. PCGS graded it EF-40. It really is that grade on a net basis because it has hairlines from brushing. And yes, I goofed up when I bought this coin at the price paid. I still love it for the history, however, but I know I'll get creamed when I sell it.
You don't have to be a believer in the system to use it. Even you Bill, see the benefit.
Remember too that the services were supposed to hold a line when it came to grading to protect collectors. That line has become blurred and CAC is an opportunistic and altruistic mix of the result.
Not everyone dedicated their life to coins like you did. You were a dealer for decades. Therefore you have a knowledge base that exceeds 99% of the community. For those that work a more traditional job, there is no time to become an expert in every market and every series. CAC fills some of that hole.
In the long run, I think all of this shows the signs of a market in decline. Demographics and changing human priorities are going to make for nice buying opportunities in the future...even for the nice coins.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
The CAC addicts say to me, "Why don't you get your collection reviewed? It doesn't cost that much."
For me it would cost me many thousands of dollars in shipping costs and insurance plus the grading fees, PLUS the risk of having my coins lost in transit, and for what? To have one man, who has too much power in this market in my opinion, to pass judgment on my holdings.
Other bits aside, that have been hashed/re-hashed ad nauseam, if you are still physically able to travel, and actually wanted your coins possibly stickered, I would think that it would be easier/cheaper/better to take a short trip to CAC-land to get them looked at.
Given some of the pictures you have posted of your coins, I think that JA would love to see them in person and he does have it where people can show up, drop off coins, then pick up.
A few hundred for a plane ticket, a night (or a few if you make it a vacation) in a nice hotel for another hundred or two, some meal money, etc, and for under $700-$800 in costs PLUS stickering costs, it could be done.
Not the "many thousands in shipping costs and insurance".
Also, I'm not sure where the 'many thousands in shipping and insurance" come from as USPS registered can handle quite a bit for $20-$30 (obviously, some of your coins may exceed the normal value and you would have more than 1 package to keep things within that range they expect).
Again, if I were so blessed as to have some of the coins you have posted, and there was any desire to CAC them, I would call CAC and arrange it with me showing up to drop-off/pick-up.
That said, if I had ZERO desire, then I wouldn't do it and I just wouldn't be commenting on CAC stuff as I would ignore it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
coinlieutenant: very nice examples! the 39-O is waaaay better than most examples of this coin in circulated grades. i viewed this coin even though it's not in the series i collect...not because of the sticker...but because LOOK at that coin! the eye appeal is amazing.
i have seen some CAC gold that did not have the type of eye appeal i like...and i have passed on them. the stickers get me attention but the choice to plunk down the money all comes down to the look of the coin.
thx to lkeigwin, et al, for positive comments. i am glad to see more gold cac photos in this thread.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The post said that I thought that considering what CAC is ...FOR....should make people feel BETTER if very few make a higher sticker standard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll add today:
This, to me, should ....repeat "SHOULD"....be a temporary phenomenon until all this hoopla blows over. EVERY hoopla blows over. The most DURABLE has been the slab concept itself.
That's all.
Not a short trip and not one that most people would even consider given the sums involved.
Gold beans to me means the coin is under graded by at least 1 grade, maybe more.
and when a coin is graded, what else is assigned to that coin? a value.
Gold beans to me means the coin is under graded by at least 1 grade, maybe more.
That's what I'd go with too.
From the CAC website.
"What Does a CAC Sticker Mean?
The CAC GREEN Label signifies that a coin has met Certified Acceptance Corporation's stringent grading standards."
Since they don't address the gold bean anywhere that I can see, one can assume that the coin would exceed their standards.
I can't find a post I...thought... I posted yesterday.
The post said that I thought that considering what CAC is ...FOR....should make people feel BETTER if very few make a higher sticker standard.
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I'll add today:
This, to me, should ....repeat "SHOULD"....be a temporary phenomenon until all this hoopla blows over. EVERY hoopla blows over. The most DURABLE has been the slab concept itself.
That's all.
And it's because I was looking in the wrong thread.
I need a blue sticker
Nice coin Spacehayduke, and maybe actually a 58, likely at NGC, as people know, it is harder to get that grade at PCGS. Plus you have the branch mint weaker strikes, etc.; many of those ended up upgrading from XF to AU, etc. according to Doug Winter.
Thanks for the thoughts on the coin. I am not sure it is easier to get a 58 at NGC vs. PCGS for a given coin and perhaps this one. Not my experience judging by submissions to both and the ratio of several hundred submissions to CAC that beaned for both TPG's. The stats show at least for my collection, there seems to be no difference between NGC and PCGS in terms of beaning or not, consistent with similar grading for both. I graded the coin visually vs. PCGS photograde online which does not take into account weak strike issues on some dates, etc., and it comes out a 55. I am not sure this is a year at Dahlonega that had strike issues.
Since this one is not going to leave its current holder as long as I own it, we will never know what it would grade again at least during its tenure with me. But it would be an interesting test to send it raw independently to both TPGs.
Best, SH