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Need help with authenticity of $3 Gold Piece

ricardounoricardouno Posts: 244 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Is this $3 Gold authentic?

Thanks!

obverse

reverse

Comments

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could be real gold, coin is a counterfeit.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Another 1855 fake coin..... I saw two this weekend already in a coin show ......
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd say no, but it may still be gold.

    When FDR made it illegal to own gold in 1933 there was an exception for collector coins.

    People did melt their gold and create collector coins to avoid confiscation. Also Lebanon minted a lot of US gold coins using real gold.

    So there is a lot of fake US gold coins out there that still contain gold.
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those that are seeing a counterfeit, help the rest of us out with some PUP's. Thanks.
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The obverse lettering speaks volumes to me - counterfeit.

    'dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Look at the "F" in "OF" on the obverse. It's really funny looking. The rest of the letter is off, but that is the most obvious.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BillJones

    Look at the "F" in "OF" on the obverse. It's really funny looking. The rest of the letter is off, but that is the most obvious.




    Bill, I have been back and forth to Coinfacts comparing the coins. The "F" is missing the bottom serif, which is minimal on the genuine coin anyway. The upper portion of the "F" looks spot on. Bottom of the "O" looks damaged as well. I thought the dropped "S" in STATES was off, but it matches. The spacing on either side of "BE" in LIBERTY on the head band is unusual but matches Coinfacts example. The coin is beat up and probably cleaned, but I'm not seeing PUP's for a fake. What else should I be looking at?

  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭
    Before slabbing came along in the 80's you were really taking a chance at buying any raw $3 golds at local shows.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,862 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Typical counterfeit made in Italy or Lebanon in the 1950s or 60s. These are scrupulously correct in gold content. To do otherwise would have been illegal in those countries at those times. Making non-current coins in proper metal was not illegal.



    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obvious counterfeit due to fuzzy details, soft and/or irregular numbers and letters, etc. Unfortunately, most of the current crop of counterfeit gold coins are much better quality and can't be authenticated from just a picture---a stereo microscope is needed.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would be great to have this coin analyzed by an expert and also checked for material content... then reported here.... Cheers, RickO
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

    I'd say no, but it may still be gold.



    When FDR made it illegal to own gold in 1933 there was an exception for collector coins.



    People did melt their gold and create collector coins to avoid confiscation. Also Lebanon minted a lot of US gold coins using real gold.



    So there is a lot of fake US gold coins out there that still contain gold.






    It was perfectly legal to own pre-1933 US gold coins from 1933-1974. On Dec 31st 1974 the remaining limitations on gold ownership were all lifted. Collectors like Bareford, Pittman, Stack, Eliasberg, and others took advantage of the "loop hole" in the 1930's to 1950's which essentially allowed collectors to stack gold coins, even common date ones, well beyond the supposed 5 oz personal limit. There was no reason to melt your gold coins in the 1930's or 1940's when it was perfectly legal to own them. You could go to coin shows in the 1960's and see stacks of $20 Saints for sale for $38-$42 per coin.



    Collectors at any time after March 1933 could have owned up to 5 examples of any dated pre-1933 gold coin. Considering how many different denominations, dates, and mints were out there, you basically had unlimited gold available if that's what you wanted (ie thousands of ounces could be legally stacked). A huge amount of US gold coins were shipped overseas during the 1930's. That gold is still flowing back in today.



    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ricko

    Would be great to have this coin analyzed by an expert and also checked for material content... then reported here.... Cheers, RickO




    CaptHenway was a grader and authenticator for ANACS so you can trust his opinion on this coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't have an 1855 Three Dollar Gold Piece, but I do have these pieces. Compare the sharpness and crispness of these pieces to the one that started this thread. The piece that started this thread is not good.

    imageimage

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty
    Originally posted by: BillJones
    Look at the "F" in "OF" on the obverse. It's really funny looking. The rest of the letter is off, but that is the most obvious.


    Bill, I have been back and forth to Coinfacts comparing the coins. The "F" is missing the bottom serif, which is minimal on the genuine coin anyway. The upper portion of the "F" looks spot on. Bottom of the "O" looks damaged as well. I thought the dropped "S" in STATES was off, but it matches. The spacing on either side of "BE" in LIBERTY on the head band is unusual but matches Coinfacts example. The coin is beat up and probably cleaned, but I'm not seeing PUP's for a fake. What else should I be looking at?


    The positioning of the lettering matches because they used a real coin to make the dies for the copy. The problem is they lost sharpness in the process.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, even though it has gold in it,

    the color of these are often what I

    call a 'Pale Yellow" color, and not the

    rich orange color that most original

    $3 gold pieces have.



    (yes, there is color differences in the

    real ones, but once you've seen one

    or two of the older 'yellow' counterfeits,

    they're pretty easy to tell)



    That's in addition to the mushy strike

    and other casting marks, etc.
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: CaptHenway

    Typical counterfeit made in Italy or Lebanon in the 1950s or 60s. These are scrupulously correct in gold content. To do otherwise would have been illegal in those countries at those times. Making non-current coins in proper metal was not illegal.



    TD






    I just melted a quarter Eagle (albeit counterfeit .900 pure) , $2.5 , 1873 Open 3 , at the refinery last week. It came back from PCGS as counterfeit, and the more I looked the more I realized what I'd missed in detail, ... but it still looked "good". And it tested that way. But, I won't go into what I missed, (as tuition goes). And those details go unseen , sometimes. And I hate myself for liking this hobby. image Lost $ on the buy. Lost $ on the submission fees and gave back a few points , on the refiner's fees, but at least the piece is off the street, now.



    It can't hurt another collector, or dealer.... or our hobby again. Okay, back to the coin business.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the lesson Bill, Fred, and others.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    Originally posted by: CaptHenway

    Typical counterfeit made in Italy or Lebanon in the 1950s or 60s. These are scrupulously correct in gold content. To do otherwise would have been illegal in those countries at those times. Making non-current coins in proper metal was not illegal.



    TD






    I just melted a quarter Eagle (albeit counterfeit .900 pure) , $2.5 , 1873 Open 3 , at the refinery last week. It came back from PCGS as counterfeit, and the more I looked the more I realized what I'd missed in detail, ... but it still looked "good". And it tested that way. But, I won't go into what I missed, (as tuition goes). And those details go unseen , sometimes. And I hate myself for liking this hobby. image Lost $ on the buy. Lost $ on the submission fees and gave back a few points , on the refiner's fees, but at least the piece is off the street, now.



    It can't hurt another collector, or dealer.... or our hobby again. Okay, back to the coin business.




    Many counterfeit gold coins eventually wind up being used in jewelry once it's determined that they are not suitable for being in a coin collection.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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