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Wow! PayPal will steal from you.
TigersFan2
Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
I know it's just $0.30, but it's the principle of the thing.
Saturday someone bought a coin from me on Ebay for $13.50 and paid. Then within a minute or so after paying, decided she didn't want the coin so she initiated a request to cancel the transaction. I noticed this immediately and accepted the transaction cancellation and immediately refunded her $13.50.
So everything should be good now? No.
I went to my Paypal account earlier this evening and see that when she paid, I received $12.81 (less $0.69 PayPal fee) and that I refunded $13.11 (credit for $0.39 PayPal fee). Buyer is made whole as she got her full $13.50 back, but I'm out $0.30 for just being an honest seller.
So, expecting this is a PayPal error, I called PayPal to inquire about the refund not giving me credit for the full $0.69 PayPal fee. I was told that it's PayPal policy to charge $0.30 for a refund.
What??? I did nothing wrong and was simply being a good, honest seller. In the case where a buyer buys something, then cancels the purchase before any shipment, it seems like the buyer should be charged the $0.30 PayPal fee, not the seller.
Anyway, I pleaded my case to the PayPal customer service rep and she gave me a credit to my account of the $0.30.
It's just $0.30 and the principle of the thing. I've always liked PayPal, but now I see the monopoly of PayPal. You must do business with them if you're going to use Ebay.
Imagine if PayPal had competition on Ebay. Wouldn't that be awesome?
Saturday someone bought a coin from me on Ebay for $13.50 and paid. Then within a minute or so after paying, decided she didn't want the coin so she initiated a request to cancel the transaction. I noticed this immediately and accepted the transaction cancellation and immediately refunded her $13.50.
So everything should be good now? No.
I went to my Paypal account earlier this evening and see that when she paid, I received $12.81 (less $0.69 PayPal fee) and that I refunded $13.11 (credit for $0.39 PayPal fee). Buyer is made whole as she got her full $13.50 back, but I'm out $0.30 for just being an honest seller.
So, expecting this is a PayPal error, I called PayPal to inquire about the refund not giving me credit for the full $0.69 PayPal fee. I was told that it's PayPal policy to charge $0.30 for a refund.
What??? I did nothing wrong and was simply being a good, honest seller. In the case where a buyer buys something, then cancels the purchase before any shipment, it seems like the buyer should be charged the $0.30 PayPal fee, not the seller.
Anyway, I pleaded my case to the PayPal customer service rep and she gave me a credit to my account of the $0.30.
It's just $0.30 and the principle of the thing. I've always liked PayPal, but now I see the monopoly of PayPal. You must do business with them if you're going to use Ebay.
Imagine if PayPal had competition on Ebay. Wouldn't that be awesome?
I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
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I know it's just $0.30, but it's the principle of the thing.
Saturday someone bought a coin from me on Ebay for $13.50 and paid. Then within a minute or so after paying, decided she didn't want the coin so she initiated a request to cancel the transaction. I noticed this immediately and accepted the transaction cancellation and immediately refunded her $13.50.
So everything should be good now? No.
I went to my Paypal account earlier this evening and see that when she paid, I received $12.81 (less $0.69 PayPal fee) and that I refunded $13.11 (credit for $0.39 PayPal fee). Buyer is made whole as she got her full $13.50 back, but I'm out $0.30 for just being an honest seller.
So, expecting this is a PayPal error, I called PayPal to inquire about the refund not giving me credit for the full $0.69 PayPal fee. I was told that it's PayPal policy to charge $0.30 for a refund.
What??? I did nothing wrong and was simply being a good, honest seller. In the case where a buyer buys something, then cancels the purchase before any shipment, it seems like the buyer should be charged the $0.30 PayPal fee, not the seller.
Anyway, I pleaded my case to the PayPal customer service rep and she gave me a credit to my account of the $0.30.
It's just $0.30 and the principle of the thing. I've always liked PayPal, but now I see the monopoly of PayPal. You must do business with them if you're going to use Ebay.
Imagine if PayPal had competition on Ebay. Wouldn't that be awesome?
Thanks for sharing.
peacockcoins
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
My Ebay Store
I never really paid attention, but they add the .30 as a per transaction fee, so it would make sense they keep it if they did allow the transaction. The PO doesn't give you your 49c back if your letter gets returned.
Since it was refunded there was technically no transaction.
Is it true that PP charges a refund fee now?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
I don't understand your question. Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
I don't understand your question. Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Look for sellers that utilize checkout software that allows them to accept credit card transactions independent of PayPal. I believe Auctiva offers such a service - I don't know their rates, but they must be competitive.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
I don't understand your question. Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Look for sellers that utilize checkout software that allows them to accept credit card transactions independent of PayPal. I believe Auctiva offers such a service - I don't know their rates, but they must be competitive.
I can't ever remember seeing an Ebay auction where the seller accepts a non-Paypal form of electronic payment. I expect that if sellers are offering such payment options as you state, they're very rare and certainly not common enough where someone could use Ebay without Paypal.
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
Technically, yes, aside from the various merchant processing services that a seller can offer. And eBay does not prohibit sellers from placing html code in a listing that affords customers direct contact information. Been there, done that.
Link to Auctiva Commerce
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
I never really paid attention, but they add the .30 as a per transaction fee, so it would make sense they keep it if they did allow the transaction. The PO doesn't give you your 49c back if your letter gets returned.
Since it was refunded there was technically no transaction.
Is it true that PP charges a refund fee now?
Actually there were two
My Ebay Store
Paypal does have competition on eBay. Its called merchant processing. It might pay to shop around and see if there is a better rate per transaction with a bank or a credit card processing service.
What would I see in an auction that there are alternate forms of payment than Paypal? All I ever see is Paypal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Is it still true that only the buyer can suggest or offer alternative forms of payment besides PP?
I don't understand your question. Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
A buyer of your item can offer to pay for the item with a check or money order or cash, but the buyer must initiate the alternate payment. As a seller, you cannot ask the buyer to pay by check or money order or cash even though that would be acceptable to you.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I never really paid attention, but they add the .30 as a per transaction fee, so it would make sense they keep it if they did allow the transaction. The PO doesn't give you your 49c back if your letter gets returned.
Since it was refunded there was technically no transaction.
Is it true that PP charges a refund fee now?
Actually there were two
There was no net exchange of cash. When you return an item to WalMart and WalMart credits your charge account does the CC Company refund the entire same amount to WM or do they keep the fee?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
All EFT transactions (Electronic Fund Transfers) are processed through a network called the Interchange. This is like the Internet, but only for financial transactions.
When a merchant uses the Interchange, there are fees for doing so.
And there is also a discount rate which the merchant (an eBay seller in this case) negotiates with their MSP (Merchant Service Provider).
There are hundreds of fee / discount combinations established by MSP's. These are written as two values. For PayPal you agreed to these terms:
2.9% + $0.30
The Interchange fee is a non-recoverable expense for using the system, this is the $0.30. There are a couple of entities that set this fee. The Card Issuing Bank and the Credit Card Association (such as VISA, MC) which set and receive these fees.
The Discount Rate is what you agreed to accept from PayPal for having them as your MSP. You agreed to accept 97.1% of the payment as the discounted payment (100% - 2.9% = $97.1%). This 2.9% goes to your MSP (PayPal).
So PayPal didn't steal your 30c. They paid the fee for you and sent you on your way because they didn't want to bother explaining to you how the system works.
It doesn't have anything to do with PayPal.
All EFT transactions (Electronic Fund Transfers) are processed through a network called the Interchange. This is like the Internet, but only for financial transactions.
When a merchant uses the Interchange, there are fees for doing so.
And there is also a discount rate which the merchant (an eBay seller in this case) negotiates with their MSP (Merchant Service Provider).
There are hundreds of fee / discount combinations established by MSP's. These are written as two values. For PayPal you agreed to these terms:
2.9% + $0.30
The Interchange fee is a non-recoverable expense for using the system, this is the $0.30. There are a couple of entities that set this fee. The Card Issuing Bank and the Credit Card Association (such as VISA, MC) which set and receive these fees.
The Discount Rate is what you agreed to accept from PayPal for having them as your MSP. You agreed to accept 97.1% of the payment as the discounted payment (100% - 2.9% = $97.1%). This 2.9% goes to your MSP (PayPal).
So PayPal didn't steal your 30c. They paid the fee for you and sent you on your way because they didn't want to bother explaining to you how the system works.
That is helpful information. Thanks.
But going back to my situation, given that the refund is initiated through Ebay's system and Ebay knows the situation behind the refund, it seems to be more logical in a case where a buyer cancels a purchase that the buyer would pay the $0.30. But then again, when returning something to a store, you receive a full refund and not a full refund less $0.30.
In my original situation, I could have simply not approved the buyer's request to cancel, shipped the coin, then been at the mercy of the buyer (who doesn't want the coin) filing a SNAD complaint or damage complaint to force me to pay the return shipping for a return. Too many bigger ways the buyer can cause a headache later.
Latin American Collection
It doesn't have anything to do with PayPal.
All EFT transactions (Electronic Fund Transfers) are processed through a network called the Interchange. This is like the Internet, but only for financial transactions.
When a merchant uses the Interchange, there are fees for doing so.
And there is also a discount rate which the merchant (an eBay seller in this case) negotiates with their MSP (Merchant Service Provider).
There are hundreds of fee / discount combinations established by MSP's. These are written as two values. For PayPal you agreed to these terms:
2.9% + $0.30
The Interchange fee is a non-recoverable expense for using the system, this is the $0.30. There are a couple of entities that set this fee. The Card Issuing Bank and the Credit Card Association (such as VISA, MC) which set and receive these fees.
The Discount Rate is what you agreed to accept from PayPal for having them as your MSP. You agreed to accept 97.1% of the payment as the discounted payment (100% - 2.9% = $97.1%). This 2.9% goes to your MSP (PayPal).
So PayPal didn't steal your 30c. They paid the fee for you and sent you on your way because they didn't want to bother explaining to you how the system works.
This is correct. There really is no principle here~this is simply the cost of doing business on the internet and accepting electronic payments, even those you refund. Why should paypal complete both transactions (payment and refund) at no charge? They are a business, too.
I am hardly a paypal sympathizer, but in this particular case, I don't see any issue at all.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Why PayPal Call Center Operators Drink XXVVII
Hey, she had nothing better to do with her time. When I called, I got through to a real person immediately with no hold time.
I never really paid attention, but they add the .30 as a per transaction fee, so it would make sense they keep it if they did allow the transaction. The PO doesn't give you your 49c back if your letter gets returned.
Since it was refunded there was technically no transaction.
Is it true that PP charges a refund fee now?
Actually there were two
There was no net exchange of cash. When you return an item to WalMart and WalMart credits your charge account does the CC Company refund the entire same amount to WM or do they keep the fee?
Net exchange of cash has nothing to do with the way PayPal charges fees. The .30 is a per transaction fee. My merchant card account does not charge this extra fee. Most charge a monthly service fee to cover that cost but apparently PayPal does not. TO explains it better in his post.
My Ebay Store
I never really paid attention, but they add the .30 as a per transaction fee, so it would make sense they keep it if they did allow the transaction. The PO doesn't give you your 49c back if your letter gets returned.
Since it was refunded there was technically no transaction.
Is it true that PP charges a refund fee now?
Actually there were two
There was no net exchange of cash. When you return an item to WalMart and WalMart credits your charge account does the CC Company refund the entire same amount to WM or do they keep the fee?
Net exchange of cash has nothing to do with the way PayPal charges fees. The .30 is a per transaction fee. My merchant card account does not charge this extra fee. Most charge a monthly service fee to cover that cost but apparently PayPal does not. TO explains it better in his post.
In all honesty, I've never had a situation where I've had to refund a PP payment. I guess TO's splainin makes sense.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
t doesn't have anything to do with PayPal.
All EFT transactions (Electronic Fund Transfers) are processed through a network called the Interchange. This is like the Internet, but only for financial transactions.
When a merchant uses the Interchange, there are fees for doing so.
And there is also a discount rate which the merchant (an eBay seller in this case) negotiates with their MSP (Merchant Service Provider).
There are hundreds of fee / discount combinations established by MSP's. These are written as two values. For PayPal you agreed to these terms:
2.9% + $0.30
The Interchange fee is a non-recoverable expense for using the system, this is the $0.30. There are a couple of entities that set this fee. The Card Issuing Bank and the Credit Card Association (such as VISA, MC) which set and receive these fees.
The Discount Rate is what you agreed to accept from PayPal for having them as your MSP. You agreed to accept 97.1% of the payment as the discounted payment (100% - 2.9% = $97.1%). This 2.9% goes to your MSP (PayPal).
So PayPal didn't steal your 30c. They paid the fee for you and sent you on your way because they didn't want to bother explaining to you how the system works.
You lost me at $0.30.
OP you will have a heart attack before you're 40.
$0.30
What's the alternative ?
You could be out a stamp in the old days.
That's so bad , it's hilarious , with respect to the OP.... except on principle. The thought's funny. The
The .30 cent is their flat rate regardless of cancelled transaction ro the amount of time it took to cancel the transaction.
It's not theft, it's in their user's agreement.
People might not like it but until you can figure out a way of bypassing it, it's all you've got until you pony up the costs for some other service.
The name is LEE!
.....Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Don't a large number of the biggest buyers at Heritage and S/B auctions still pay by check, especially dealers? I've never paid by C/C or Paypal at major coin auctions.
.....Show me an auction that has as it's payment form something other than PayPal or Credit Cards processed by PayPal.
Don't a large number of the biggest buyers at Heritage and S/B auctions still pay by check, especially dealers? I've never paid by C/C or Paypal at major coin auctions.
Most of my coins would be laughed at by Heritage and the major auction houses.
I can't believe that auction houses still use "checks" in lieu of some sort of electronic generated payment...Throw back to the 20th century...
echecks.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876