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Opinions: AT or NT?

LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
I bought this Type I SLQ at an auction a few months ago. I thought it was really pretty, even though I was suspicious of the toning. I was going to send it in to see what our hosts thought, but never got around to it.

So I put it in my case at a show last weekend, stating up front that I wasn't sure about the toning, to the first person that looked at it. He snapped it up.

So, my question...do you think I sold a beautiful naturally toned coin way too cheap, or did I sell a really nicely doctored coin at...probably what it was worth?

...Tom

Obverse

Reverse

LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics

Comments

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know about selling it too cheap or not as you don't give us a price.



    But, sure is suspect as to toning. I'm on the fence as well but the reverse tells me AT as the toning just magically hit the exact right places.



    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cleaned and retoned was my first thought.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to defer to the toning experts on this one 50/50 it might have had some help.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,275 ✭✭✭
    The consistency of the toning on both sides leads me to believe it's AT.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NT to me
  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obverse looks ok, but the reverse has me scratching my head. Suspect.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the coin looks real nice but im not really sure about the toning yet.
  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The reverse looks a little off but even if it were NT, I don't think it should command much of a premium. I think the potential grade would swing the price much more than any color bonus.
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Steve27
    The consistency of the toning on both sides leads me to believe it's AT.


    This.

  • ChangeInHistoryChangeInHistory Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty
    Cleaned and retoned was my first thought.


    Me too
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure either way about the reverse toning. The surfaces look to be 63-65 with possibly a touch of friction on Liberty's right knee. Maybe once dipped with odd secondary toning including signs of an incomplete rinse???
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not glaringly AT IMHO. I'd probably think the cleaned and retoned might not be too far off.
  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    Natural for sure common color for this coin I think you did right to sell it
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coin looks like it was dipped in molassas and then rinsed with water. Most SLQ's in CoinFacts seem to have a fair amount of original silver along with the brown or a little color like blue. I don't think it to be AT but PCGS would probably grade it Questionable Color as is the predominant opinion here.


    OINK
  • JJSingletonJJSingleton Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you can find a top tier TPG to find it market acceptable.

    Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia

    Findley Ridge Collection
    About Findley Ridge

  • LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
    The coin had blazing luster under the tone...the pictures didn't capture that. And very few marks. I think it would likely have gone 65 ... if it had graded.

    ...Tom

    LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
    http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics

  • Danye WestDanye West Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

    Cleaned and retoned was my first thought.




    I agree
    I could make a birth year registry set out of pocket change.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
    It looks like it was intentionally toned to appear NT.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the color is off a bit and maybe it isn't, I'm no expert with silver. I agree the term should be market acceptable. I really don't think someone artificially toned this coin. Maybe it was put somewhere cleaned or not and it turned that color. I've seen artificially toned silver coins before and they don't look anything like what I'm seeing here. I think the term, artificially toned coins, is used very loosely most always.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pretty coin and as I have said before.....toning should not affect grade either way. Just grade the coin for wear and detail please!

    Let the buyer and seller worry about toning.
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: DIMEMAN

    Pretty coin and as I have said before.....toning should not affect grade either way. Just grade the coin for wear and detail please!



    Let the buyer and seller worry about toning.






    Unfortunately, if PCGS doesn't think the toning is original, there will be no grade on this coin and the owner will lose. AT/NT WILL affect the grade or no grade.



    My issue with the reverse is that the recesses of the A and R's in QUARTER DOLLAR are dark.

    That would indicate a prior cleaning where the recesses could not be completely cleaned as the fields were.

  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭
    I think it's NT. A coin doctor would have done a better job.



    Looks like a nice sharp strike with a full shield and FH.



    Edited to add: I know you didn't ask for grade opinions, but it looks 58 to me.



    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • sjk1776sjk1776 Posts: 132
    Hi y'all, I'm new here. I see no "pull away" as seen in toned Morgans. Does that trait apply here?
    Colonial and Continental Currency Collector.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ChangeInHistory

    Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

    Cleaned and retoned was my first thought.




    Me too




    Me three

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The toning on the wing of the eagle in the reverse says to me that it is AT. The brown is too vivid.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭
    Seeing this coin reminds me of coins toned with smoke from a cigarette or cigar.
    If it grades it may have just enough rub on the knee to bring it down to a 58
    It is a nice coin

    My first series I collected and still like SLQ
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LRCTom

    I bought this Type I SLQ at an auction a few months ago. I thought it was really pretty, even though I was suspicious of the toning. I was going to send it in to see what our hosts thought, but never got around to it.



    So I put it in my case at a show last weekend, stating up front that I wasn't sure about the toning, to the first person that looked at it. He snapped it up.



    So, my question...do you think I sold a beautiful naturally toned coin way too cheap, or did I sell a really nicely doctored coin at...probably what it was worth?



    ...Tom



    Obverse



    Reverse




    imageimage

    theknowitalltroll;
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AT.....This is a previously dipped and recolored coin... uniformity with dark recesses are major

    indicators. Cheers, RickO
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: sjk1776

    Hi y'all, I'm new here. I see no "pull away" as seen in toned Morgans. Does that trait apply here?




    Now that you mention it, pull-away toning as seen so often on silver coins of the early 1800's to 1916 doesn't seem to show up near as often in SLQ's, Peace Dollars, etc. That could be related to how the mint treated/rinsed those planchets. Certainly Peace Dollars don't tone all that much other than mottled yellow/browns/purples.



    I've had a number of choice Unc SLQ's and don't any of them showing pull away toning. Other than the 1917's, they also tend to get dipped like crazy.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel the toning is a moot issue. AT or NT? no idea, it wb for TPG decide IMO. You have sold it, just enjoy your profit and move on.

    If a buyer snapped it up, it was a successful acquisition for you assuming you made your target markup on it. The alternative whb send it in, if AT, crackout and see what you can do. I would be happy with the quick sale and profit, and not worried about what ifs.

    The toning issues is like asking "Did the LG make a good block on the DT? The block was good enough to allow the back to score, so not an issue.

    It looks nice and a 1917 Type 1 to boot. I had a 1917 Type 1 PCGS 63 25c I carried it around for a long time to shows I set up at. It was a really PQ piece with nice luster. I had to pay thru the nose to get it. A lot of them coming up to my table only wanted pay sheet (considerably less than my cost), and would not pay my best price which was NN Coin Market Sell. Eventually it sold to a collector coming to a show looking for one. It is a tough coin, and this piece was really well struck.

    On nice coins like that I do not budge and will eventually get my price.
    Investor
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin does have a rub on Ms. Liberty's right knee (left knee to the viewer). This is one area that some graders use to detect "sliders." If this coin was toned the rub would be more obvious.

    BTW, don't get too excited about the strike. The 1917-P Type One Quarter is the best struck issue in the series. This coin is nicely struck, but it's not coup finding one that is just as sharp.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Shamika
    It looks like it was intentionally toned to appear NT.


    That's a new one on me LOL But like your assessment.

  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    I think this coin is market acceptable and will be slabbed by one of the two majors.
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not crazy about the piece, but if you made money, great.

    Color looks off to me.

    Buy something else and keep the money turning.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty
    Cleaned and retoned was my first thought.


    +1 image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for all the opinions. For those who expressed concern about the darkness on the highest part of the reverse, that was my biggest concern also. Which is why I didn't send it in to a TPG, fully expecting a "Questionable Toning" In other words, they didn't know for sure. Neither did I.

    ...Tom

    LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
    http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics

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