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Opinions on raw Barber Proof Half

BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
Bought raw... very original and unmessed with. Opinions on the coin are welcome and any grade estimations.



Graded PR65



@st image shot straight on to show how it looks in hand. Second lit from the side to show contrast.



imageimage



imageimage

Comments

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are the surfaces mirrored?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks as if there are some light hairlines mixed in with die polish in the left obverse field- It is attractive but may have limitations- 64 is my high with 63 being most probable outcome

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    Beautiful looking color and surfaces. If it's raw it must be a 63-64. Looks mirrored in the second shot, in consideration of the toning.
    Imaging is great. Wish I could take coin photos anywhere near that.
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like it's just asking for a quick dip. Gorgeous reverse.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: dogwood

    Beautiful looking color and surfaces. If it's raw it must be a 63-64. Looks mirrored in the second shot, in consideration of the toning.

    Imaging is great. Wish I could take coin photos anywhere near that.




    I live overseas and bought it outside of the US so it being raw isn't as indicative as if it were from the US.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Wabbit2313



    Are the surfaces mirrored?




    Yes, but not cameo
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: grip

    Looks like it's just asking for a quick dip. Gorgeous reverse.




    I liked it specifically because it wasn't messed with, including dipped.
  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Boosibri
    Originally posted by: grip
    Looks like it's just asking for a quick dip. Gorgeous reverse.


    I liked it specifically because it wasn't messed with, including dipped.


    For me, that statement is good with mostly all coins.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PF-65 for me. Looks really nice! Where in the world did you find that raw?
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks good from here. Hard for me to grade proofs from photos, but if no major hairline patches are present, looks 4+/5.
  • USMarine6USMarine6 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The first photo of the obverse shows some pretty good hairlines if im interpreting the photo correctly. Looks 63 to 64 to me.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice.
    Looks like a PR66 at the very least to me.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Knowing the OP, probably bought as a 63/64 coin. I see the potential for 65/66. I like it.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hairlines are not unusual on classic proofs- However, the presence of hairlines can limit the grade.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A light dip?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A dip would be catastrophic... Whatever hairlines are present would only be magnified. The cheek looks terrific and after a dip, what are the chances it will look as good as it does now?

    It is a nice coin as it is

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Knowing the OP, probably bought as a 63/64 coin. I see the potential for 65/66. I like it.


    That's what I was thinking also, but I think 66 is a stretch. The OP would have spotted the hairlines prior to purchase, if there are any. The second image of the reverse is absolutely mesmerizing.




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  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Grading Proof coins from images is hard enough and coupled
    with splotchy toning, makes it all the harder. I detected a few
    inconsequential hairlines - and as Realone mention, it's to be
    expected on classical coins ( especially with open fields - IMHO ).

    Based on what is presented - I think the coin is a 65 ( if higher, I'll
    be amazed - if lower, it wouldn't surprise me one iota ). Still, I like
    the coin just fine - and would be very interested in what the professional
    graders at PCGS think of this coin.

    Just my 2c

    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How do u know a dip would be catastrophic? U can't see lines from a pic.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both PR 66 and 67 can have stray hairlines. Even a 68 may show a few of them. The 64's and 65's have plenty of them. I'd give the 65 grade the edge. It just looks gem to me.



    When the TPG's first came out a single hairline across Liberty' cheek was grounds for an immediate drop to 64 grade, even if perfect otherwise. These days, such an obvious hairline on a strong eye appeal coin could still get even a 67 grade. You can have bag marks on a MS66 Barber half....and hairlines on a PR66.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm thinking Pf 64 min, Pf 65 on a good day.





    Nice coin there.



    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will go with 64.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Make no mistake about it- I think this is a nice coin.

    And it is hard to grade Proof coins and even other coins from an image once you hit the high end of the grading spectrum.

    In the first image, I see what looks to be light hairlines between the stars at around 9 oclock with other light hairlines in the left field above and below 9 oclock- maybe it is the lighting, the angle or just the image, but it is what I see.

    On a proof coin, hairlines will become magnified and will be more apparent and distracting after dipping... Boosbri has the coin in hand and believes it has not been messed with and I have no reason to doubt him or doubt that status based on what can be seen in the images. So a dip will not lead to a better grading outcome for this coin.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coinkat,

    I agree with you about the dip revealing hairlines potentially. All depends on what the toning looks like. If ugly and lines are not readlly apparent, then dip it. If not, then hold off.

    In my original post, I asked if a light dip would be worth it...

    John
  • Jackthecat1Jackthecat1 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭
    This is a very attractive coin. My guess would be PR-65.
    Member ANS, ANA, GSNA, TNC



    image
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like it might be an attractive coin..... can we say that about a Barber? image I could never even think of grading a proof from an image. Some of you folks are good. Taking the odds of what it might be or going by what the OP usually has. I guess if we throw enough against the wall something might stick. That's what I feel trying to grade a proof from an image is. And some going back and forth as well.



    I know it's fun, but no way, can you tell what a proof coin looks like/grades from an image. Enjoy!
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the feedback. As RR said, I paid about 63+ money which turned into 64 money after Irish customs decided to hold the package and I had to pay for its release. I am by no means qualified to grade proof Barbers but my logic was: attractive in hand, minimal hairlines which come out more in the pic than I can see in hand, decent risk reward but need a 65 for any profit, and lastly, if someone else bought the coin they would probably try and wreck it by monkeying with it. Call it numismatic social work.



    The PCGS Paris grading week in early June and I have a mixture of US and World coins which will go that them there (benefit of Paris, US coins are World coins there just like everything else so only one submission needed). I will post the grade shortly there after.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: coinkat

    Looks as if there are some light hairlines mixed in with die polish in the left obverse field- It is attractive but may have limitations- 64 is my high with 63 being most probable outcome




    I like it, and agree with coinkat's assessment.




    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you take a look at all of the Coinfacts 63's all have much more apparent hair lining particularly on the cheek. For that reason I'm more inclined to see it as a 64 with a greater chance at 65 vs 63.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Personally, I would rather see 65 than 63 based on the overall appearance of this coin- just not as optimistic as others.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    64 was the number that came to my mind. But I was hedging my bets.



    FWIW, I had a PR63 CAM Barber half once. It had more hairlines than that. Not many more, though.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice piece!
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for showing it on the Barber Mega Thread.
    The coin is stunning - and I'm sure many others
    appreciate it as much as I do.
    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    It will be interesting to see how it grades as a World Coin.

    I think it is a sold 64, so hopefully you can get a 65.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice coin....and being raw is understandable from your explanation. I would venture to guess 65.... Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grade posted today... PR65
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice score MFH. So much for all those "hairlines" holding back the grade. It was a nice looking coin. The majority of collectors (including me) will tend to under grade RAW classic 19th century proofs due to marks/hairlines. I don't know how many gem proof seated coins I passed on at major name auctions due to a stray mark or two that ended up going 1-2 points higher than my assigned grades. As a group, we tend to be conservative on raw classic proofs focusing on micro marks rather than the whole coin. And the hairlines that would never fly on a gem PF65 Barber half in the pre-1991 days are soaring to 67 grades in today's markets.



    I learned the above lesson big time on one of my own coins....the Kaufman NGC PF68 1890 half. I was convinced the coin had a reverse field wipe that precluded any chance it could ever go better than PCGS PF67....and maybe only 66. But it had top eye appeal. I let it go at cost after 4-5 years of ownership figuring it had limited upside....and the market was getting top heavy. 6 months later I see it parading around in a PCGS PF68 CAM holder (pop 2 for type- top 1 for the date). Price went from $15K to $35K. That's an expensive lesson. I never even thought to try that coin at PCGS because "I knew it wasn't good enough."
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: MFH

    Thanks for showing it on the Barber Mega Thread.
    The coin is stunning - and I'm sure many others
    appreciate it as much as I do.


    image

    This is a very nice looking coin IMHO.

    Nice to pick it raw too!
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you buy this at an auction sight unseen from pics? Nice looking half.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beautiful coin and SHOULD NEVER be dipped!! 65 to me.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: davewesen

    Did you buy this at an auction sight unseen from pics? Nice looking half.




    Yes. Gamble based on risk/reward.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats- well played through all my doubts. It is an attractive coin and worthy of a 65

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ahopewell55ahopewell55 Posts: 276 ✭✭
    Good eye, Brian.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet!
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
    It will be interesting to see how it grades as a World Coin.

    I think it is a sold 64, so hopefully you can get a 65.

    They got it right image

    Congratulations image

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