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What does it take to get a gold bean??
Ed62
Posts: 857 ✭✭
I have one. Yes, it is a very nice coin (Pr 63) but not sure what sets it apart from other Pr63's or Pr64's.
Ed
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In its five years, Certified Acceptance Corp. has had more than 429,000 coins submitted to it. Of those coins, just 1,754 have received the coveted CAC gold sticker.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2013/01/mysterious-cac-gold-stickers.html
--Severian the Lame
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
In its five years, Certified Acceptance Corp. has had more than 429,000 coins submitted to it. Of those coins, just 1,754 have received the coveted CAC gold sticker.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/...cac-gold-stickers.html
That tells me that there are very few obvious upgrade candidates out there
1754 over 429,000 ?? That looks like about .4 of 1%.
Note that the article is a few years old (2013). I don't know if the ratio has remained consistent. But it is pretty eye-opening to see how rare gold beans are, or at least were.
--Severian the Lame
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
And yes, I do have one coin with a gold CAC sticker. I bought it soon after CAC started. The coin is graded EF-40. The coin looks better than it is. The coin is an AU that is hairlined from brushing. CAC and I got it wrong. PCGS got it right with the net grade.
a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
This...
What does it take to get a gold bean? A very nice coin for the grade....and some luck too.
This year has been a non coin expense cost saving exercise: Goodbye CDN, NN, and BNR. That savings comes to about $330 and can be applied to a nice gold coin!
1810 Large Cent OGH PCGS 55 that would regrade to a 62 easily today
I have to wonder how much people must spend on the sticker game each year that would buy a nice coin?
This year has been a non coin expense cost saving exercise: Goodbye CDN, NN, and BNR. That savings comes to about $330 and can be applied to a nice gold coin!
+1
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Of those, and without poring through the CAC pop reports, it seems like certain issues are far more likely to gold sticker than others, including Oregon commems, 1940s Mercury Dimes and 1938 Buffalo Nickels.
Coin Rarities Online
Other star colors available in the pack are red,blue,silver and green.The stars are easy to remove and leave no adhesive residue on the holder if and when removed.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
A quick scan of Gold CAC stickers on Morgans on eBay right now:
1887, MS63
1886, MS62
1881-S, MS63
1887, MS63
1884-O, MS63
1887, MS62 (This guy thinks it's worth $170!)
Any of the above can go up 2 grades and who cares? It's when you get a top pop or rare coin getting a Gold sticker. That is when you have something. Many of the Mercury dime Golds I have seen could go up 4 grades and still be worth 20 bucks!
Of the total population of gold stickered coins, I would guess well more than 90% are in old PCGS OGH and NGC Fatty slabs.
Of those, and without poring through the CAC pop reports, it seems like certain issues are far more likely to gold sticker than others, including Oregon commems, 1940s Mercury Dimes and 1938 Buffalo Nickels.
The CAC pop reports seem to back this up. There are several series that have numbers approaching these (like MS Saints). But they may also have larger numbers in existence and larger number submitted.
It's interesting to note that there are several series with few if any gold CAC stickers, or far fewer than you might imagine.
For example, if I'm reading the reports correctly, there have been a total of 25 gold CAC stickers issued for the entire MS Lincoln series, wheat through memorial.
--Severian the Lame
What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
In its five years, Certified Acceptance Corp. has had more than 429,000 coins submitted to it. Of those coins, just 1,754 have received the coveted CAC gold sticker.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/...cac-gold-stickers.html
That tells me that there are very few obvious upgrade candidates out there
Extension of that logic also hints that the whole CAC thing is just an added expense and not necessary as apparently (as you have so nicely called attention), the grading companies DO know what they are doing for the most part.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In my opinion, it makes perfect sense that coins such as proof Franklin half dollars, proof Mercury dimes, 1940s Mercury dimes, 1938-D Buffalo nickels and any of a number of assorted classic commems would have the highest numbers of gold CAC stickers. I have been writing this for years and the reasoning is that these coins, when graded many years ago, never really experienced the bump in price to the next grade that would have been necessary to crack them out and resubmit them. Therefore, even though many were clearly nicer than the "contemporary" grade, there was not the financial motivation to have them graded again.
The three gold CAC Stone Mountain commems I posted are a perfect example. They are not worth any more money in the next grade so why bother paying the grading fees for an upgrade.
What I mean is a coin with "fresh" surfaces, original skin, etc.
For example, I have seen white, "dippy" dollars in 63 holders that were lock 64s......but probably would not CAC as a 63 or a 64.....just the "wrong" look.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
To those slamming the CAC paradigm or idea, which seems to be a popular sport among many on the boards, keep in mind that the other end of the spectrum are those coins that fail CAC evaluation. This is a rather large group, approximately 55-60% of the coins submitted, and dwarfs the thin-slice gold CAC market. These coins may be lower end for the grade, in the opinion of CAC, or might have "issues" that were either silently net graded by the TPGs or missed completely during the certification process. This education, in my opinion, is far more important than finding out the oddball coin received a gold sticker. Regardless, I believe many folks feel good about flashing internet testosterone.
finally, a well formed opinion with facts to back it up. thank you.
I've been keeping track over the years, Bill and I tend to agree on average 8.7 times per calendar year. this is one of them!!
To those slamming the CAC paradigm or idea, which seems to be a popular sport among many on the boards, keep in mind that the other end of the spectrum are those coins that fail CAC evaluation. This is a rather large group, approximately 55-60% of the coins submitted, and dwarfs the thin-slice gold CAC market. These coins may be lower end for the grade, in the opinion of CAC, or might have "issues" that were either silently net graded by the TPGs or missed completely during the certification process. This education, in my opinion, is far more important than finding out the oddball coin received a gold sticker. Regardless, I believe many folks feel good about flashing internet testosterone.
Bingo.
I shake my head every time the same anti-cac folks chime in.
Hearing the same thing from these folks, time and time again, just dulls me to anything they say as they have an obvious personal vendetta, for whatever reason.
Like it, or not, it is there and one does NOT need to use CAC, nor purchase CAC coins if they don't want to. There is no monopoly.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The obsession with CAC bores me.
I've been keeping track over the years, Bill and I tend to agree on average 8.7 times per calendar year. this is one of them!!
yet, you both continue to read and post to these cac threads!
keep in mind that the other end of the spectrum are those coins that fail CAC evaluation. This is a rather large group, approximately 55-60% of the coins submitted, and dwarfs the thin-slice gold CAC market. These coins may be lower end for the grade, in the opinion of CAC, or might have "issues" that were either silently net graded by the TPGs or missed completely during the certification process.
But the TPG still got those right!
keep in mind that the other end of the spectrum are those coins that fail CAC evaluation. This is a rather large group, approximately 55-60% of the coins submitted, and dwarfs the thin-slice gold CAC market. These coins may be lower end for the grade, in the opinion of CAC, or might have "issues" that were either silently net graded by the TPGs or missed completely during the certification process.
But the TPG still got those right!
I agree that there are a large number of accurately graded coins that would fail the CAC evaluation and CAC readily admits this on their website, too. CAC is simply a resource or tool to use in conjunction with the TPGs; it should not be viewed as an adversarial relationship.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
What does it take to receive a Gold Bean? A very discerning eye for quality and eye-appeal that the holdered TPG did not see or take into consideration.
What does it say to you when an AU58 receives a Gold Bean? MS plus? It is a real looker for a AU58, by JA saw something that he liked and put his "stamp" on it that he would attempt to buy it. Nobody is perfect. If you want a CAC approved coin, you will normally pay closer to full market value and possibly then some.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I guess I should expect it as this board seems to be getting like the college campuses these days. Some folks want no opposing opinions and if you aren't positive whatever the subject is then you're called out for being negative, attacking, and the most famous one now is "Bullying." Kinda the other way around in my opinion.
My CAC coins always sell for more than those that are not. Hard to argue that.
- JA knows more about coins in his little finger than I ever will.
- At times, I disagree with JA. Who is right? The broader market will side with JA 99% of the time.
- I have seen coins that I consider to be problem coins sporting a gold bean. Who is right? Same answer.
- If the beans serve no other purpose than to put a check on grade-flation and doctoring, I'm good with that.
- If you don't think stickers are useful or important that's fine. Just don't insist that the market sees it the same way. People like reassurance that what they're buying is what they think it is.
- Most people who buy coins aren't very good at grading.
- IMO, gold beans are usually put on coins that will grade 1.5-2 grades higher on re-submission, most of the time.
- Most of the gold beans "out there" are inconsequential - on coins where a grade or two makes no real difference in value (generic gold, low MS common-date coins, etc.)
- Smart as he is, JA does not perfectly understand the entire market or every series, and carries with him a significant internal bias, like we all do. That's not meant to be disrespectful, just reality.
My CAC coins always sell for more than those that are not. Hard to argue that.
It's easy to argue that. I had a sizable number of NGC stickered 64-66 seated/Barber coins go to auction that realized less than if they had been in unstickered PCGS holders. I'd guess that out a dozen or two coins this applied to half of them. 30-40% holder bias can easily counter a 10-25% CAC premium.
There have also been examples of very eye appealing, unstickered NGC coins that didn't meet the grade at CAC fetch much more than PCGS stickered coins. While these may be few and far between, it happens.
Here's an 1887 PCGS MS66 Morgan that's unstickered. It realized 10-15% more than many stickered MS66 common date Morgans go for, including the PCGS MS66 CAC linked 2nd below.
1887 MS66 no sticker
1887 MS66 CAC
For those slamming the so-called anti CAC...... it goes both ways and the same folks that are pro CAC always seem to do the same as well. It goes both ways guys
I actually attempt to keep this in mind when I post to CAC threads because I don't want to stomp out other opinions simply because they may not agree with my own. Obviously, I like CAC, but it might be rather easy for me to support CAC since much of what they appear to look at or like, in my experience, dovetails nicely with my own preferences. I guess I find many parallels between CAC and the TPGs and a bit of irony in some statements.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My CAC coins always sell for more than those that are not. Hard to argue that.
It's easy to argue that. I had a sizable number of NGC stickered 64-66 seated/Barber coins go to auction that realized less than if they had been in unstickered PCGS holders. I'd guess that out a dozen or two coins this applied to half of them. 30-40% holder bias can easily counter a 10-25% CAC premium.
There have also been examples of very eye appealing, unstickered NGC coins that didn't meet the grade at CAC fetch much more than PCGS stickered coins. While these may be few and far between, it happens.
Here's an 1887 PCGS MS66 Morgan that's unstickered. It realized 10-15% more than many stickered MS66 common date Morgans go for, including the PCGS MS66 CAC linked 2nd below.
1887 MS66 no sticker
1887 MS66 CAC
You are comparing apples to oranges above. A nicely toned Morgan to a blast white one. Nice try.
AS I said, MY CAC COINS always sell for more, and you can't argue that since you don't have any clue what coins I have sold or own.
I take that back, you might know about one I sold.
It went for more than 19K. Case closed.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Seriously, a good question. Submission starts with believing.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5