Tips for a novice collector...
rAbrams
Posts: 5
Hello again,
Second post here, hopefully of many to come.
The question(s) I'd like to pose today is this:
What advice would you give to a relatively new collector? Or, perhaps, what advice would you give to yourself when you first started up?
I have come across many a wisdom in my short time collecting (just over a year now) that range from "Just enjoy it," to "Just make some money." To put it bluntly, I have searched for, and achieved, quite a broad spectrum of ideals in regards to collecting. I have reached out to the likes of the lowliest pawn shops to some of the more bourgeoisie establishments around my area and that has yielded some, to say, surprising results.
In fact, the aforementioned "Just enjoy it" mentalities have mostly come from, what I would consider, younger folks working at higher end and more specialized shops, at least those from the region I currently reside in, whereas the less expensive and lower end shops, that have mostly been owned and run by older gentlemen and women, have consistently preached a mentality that considers profit more important than fun.
Now, I suppose if I were to answer this question in imaginative retrospect, I would tell myself the following:
"It is, of course, very important to have fun with this. However, you'll find yourself experiencing more enjoyment if you make wise investments that will eventually hand you some profit."
Is that statement anywhere near reasonable to consider truthful?
Thank you
Second post here, hopefully of many to come.
The question(s) I'd like to pose today is this:
What advice would you give to a relatively new collector? Or, perhaps, what advice would you give to yourself when you first started up?
I have come across many a wisdom in my short time collecting (just over a year now) that range from "Just enjoy it," to "Just make some money." To put it bluntly, I have searched for, and achieved, quite a broad spectrum of ideals in regards to collecting. I have reached out to the likes of the lowliest pawn shops to some of the more bourgeoisie establishments around my area and that has yielded some, to say, surprising results.
In fact, the aforementioned "Just enjoy it" mentalities have mostly come from, what I would consider, younger folks working at higher end and more specialized shops, at least those from the region I currently reside in, whereas the less expensive and lower end shops, that have mostly been owned and run by older gentlemen and women, have consistently preached a mentality that considers profit more important than fun.
Now, I suppose if I were to answer this question in imaginative retrospect, I would tell myself the following:
"It is, of course, very important to have fun with this. However, you'll find yourself experiencing more enjoyment if you make wise investments that will eventually hand you some profit."
Is that statement anywhere near reasonable to consider truthful?
Thank you
0
Comments
And I don't recall if I welcomed you before......so
If I could go back I would purchase one quality coin rather than the half dozen low end ones I'd end up with.
Yes I can sell the quantity of junk I purchased but will never recover what it cost me.
When I look at (enjoy) my collection, I shove aside all of that junk to admire the few awesome coins that I paid up for.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Good luck
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That is the KEY = KNOWLEDGE.
Specialize in something and know it in and out and backwards and forwards before you spend one red cent. Just save while you learn.
Get to the library and read, read and read some more. Understand where you want to spend your money and why you want to spend it there.
Get on the internet and get that knowledge if it's not available in your library.
If you have a short term goal or a life long one does not matter. Just make up your mind before you pick a goal....be committed.
Keep asking questions.
bob
I would imagine you see the common thread here - knowledge.
Auction records, books, attending coin shows. Threads here that feature coin photos (like the Liberty Seated thread and the Barber thread).
Threads by members that consistently show high quality coins (Aurora Borealis for toners, Elmer Fusterpuck for generally high quality coins, lkeigwin for bust pieces, posters such as Justacommemen, Walkerfan, and Breakdown for Walking Liberty half dollars, and others whose names don't immediately pop into mind).
Look at top registry sets that feature PCGS True Views. Look at Coin Facts photos.
Figure out what you like and pursue it.
For me, collecting during my youth and re-starting it all these decades later allows me to pursue coins that I only dreamed of when I was young - and that is pure fun for me.
Oh and JBN is being too kind. Go to school on his knowledge of Walkers
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
After a while you'll understand why.
There is always another coin so don't feel pressure to buy anything
Buy quality instead of quantity
Buy small amounts of bullion over time if the price is right and sell it when it spikes
Save up to buy the right coin instead of settling for the wrong coin
Learn how to grade and understand what an original versus messed coin looks like
Listen to others who are knowledgeable and who are willing to share
Be polite to dealers, they are just people too
Go to coin shows, they are fun
Sell some coins so you understand how the market works
Go to a major auction, they are fun
Stay away from dealers who try to rip you off
Don't burn bridges with good dealers
Buy a good loupe
There are a lot of ways to collect coins. If you like to collect a series or a variety of coins in a type set do it in a way that you enjoy.
Before getting in too deep, you should also sell some of your coins to see what you can get for them. Selling coins can be one of the biggest lessons to learn.
Ask yourself "Did you make or lose money, and why?"
Just be aware that there are a number of people who will say or do anything to make a buck. There is a much larger group of people who will be enormously helpful and add enjoyment to a fantastic hobby.
Welcome!
I think too many collectors wig out on completing sets instead of just enjoying coins.
When it's all said and done, who really cares if you have a full set of Barber Dimes? (nothing against Barbers, just making an example)
Just study the coins and the history behind them and if a series catches your fancy, dig in. You don't have to have every date/mintmark of a series to have a nice collection. Think outside the usual collecting cliches, and buy what you like, whether it turns out to be Canadian Quarters, Jefferson Nickels, Civil War tokens, shooting talers, Maundy coins, whatever. Just go for it!
If you live close enough, seek out and go to a few coin shows and see what's out there.
Just have fun, and, really, if you're not spending a whole lot of money, just consider it an entertainment expense, because that's really what it is.
While you're learning, you'll make mistakes, we all did, but that's the only way you can learn.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Listen and learn while looking at lots of coins.
Trust your eye and
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Indian head cents in fine won't cost you much.
A crusty VG seated half can be fun.
A bullion Morgan and Walker make nice toys.
A cheap type set in other words.
20 coins to look at. Study. Fall for.
Maybe you have a box of junk like this and your calling is already based on what you've found appealing in them.
Then move on to the great advice in the thread.
But I do still get a kick out of my box of junk. I'm sure it'll be with me longer than the $500-$2500 coins I own.
"Just make some money" is not good advice (IMHO).
I would imagine you see the common thread here - knowledge.
Auction records, books, attending coin shows. Threads here that feature coin photos (like the Liberty Seated thread and the Barber thread).
Threads by members that consistently show high quality coins (Aurora Borealis for toners, Elmer Fusterpuck for generally high quality coins, lkeigwin for bust pieces, posters such as Justacommemen, Walkerfan, and Breakdown for Walking Liberty half dollars, and others whose names don't immediately pop into mind).
Look at top registry sets that feature PCGS True Views. Look at Coin Facts photos.
Figure out what you like and pursue it.
For me, collecting during my youth and re-starting it all these decades later allows me to pursue coins that I only dreamed of when I was young - and that is pure fun for me.
In addition to the above, as Mark said, try to find a mentor. Then look at as many coins in your chosen specialty so that you understand what X coin in Y grade should look like. What's a slider for the grade, and what's a really nice coin for the grade. If you mentor consistently agrees with you, that tells you that you can grade these coins reasonably well. Always have a mentor look at a coin before you buy it.
Lastly, never buy a coin just because you have some available funds. There should be reason why you buy each coin in your collection.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
peacockcoins
My YouTube Channel
Knowledge is paramount to avoid scams and ripoffs... look (learn) before you leap. Decide if you want this to be a hobby or a business...of course, you can always change later. If a hobby, buy what you like, grade is not as important if procuring for personal enjoyment. If for a business, get the best you can afford to ensure a profit when selling. Learn from forums, shows, books, dealers, mentors.... have fun. Cheers, RickO
Above all, have fun and don't expect to make money.
Lance.
Man, I've been digging through tons of posts here on this website and I think I've found the source of the all important knowledge that has been stressed in the responses to this post.... you folks!
In the few days I've been very actively reading posts here, I've learned more than I have in my entire collecting experience previously. It truly is incredible to not only see the kinds of coins I aspire to one day obtain, but to get an in depth education on them in the process. The die pairings, the overdates, the mintmark varieties, and all other things of the like are pieces of information I had never known prior to my digging through the forum a bit. Funny I call it digging when I'm sure I haven't even scratched the surface yet.
Anyway, thanks again everyone for the wonderful tips and I can't wait until I can start posting my own NEWPS! That is, of course, after I narrow my collecting goals and learn as much as I can about whatever it is I decide to start collecting.
Have a great day!
Learn to grade conservatively and be able to spot cleaning and other surface alterations such as artificial toning, whizzing and tooling. Until you feel confident in these areas do not spend even a dime on coins. Set your own strict standards and stick to them. Don't be swayed by TPG assigned grades or "stickers".
The above is very important. Problem coins, even in holders, will kill you. Even in a holder, coins can still be routinely over-priced by 30-100%.
Try to avoid the usual "learning curve" fees that nearly all of us had to pay out. For those of us who started before slabs...it was probably a much higher cost. Your mentor or guidance counselor should help you avoid those. Don't expect most of your local coin dealers to help steer you away from iffy coins.
One drawback to being real conservative is that while you'll probably rarely lose $$ on a coin, you also will let many quality coins pass by. I was crazy conservative in the 1980's as nearly EVERY mint state 19th century silver coin I saw had rub, particularly those that were pre-1852. It's ok to set some high standards, just don't expect to buy many coins at that standard.
Sometimes, "that" special coin does come around only once. And if you see it and delay, you will regret that for the next 30 years. That's happened to me a number of times. There was no second chance. And it can be "special" simply because it's way under-graded or under-priced. Here's my example.....
I let the Norweb 1842-0 Sm Date AU55/58 seated quarter get away at the auction for $4K or so back in the late 1980's. I knew it was one of the finest known, but I really wanted to "wait" for an unc. Oddly, Martin Paul bought that coin out from under everyone, and got it graded MS63! He flipped it for $13K. Almost 30 years later and that is still the finest graded having sold for up to $75K. There are some others graded mint state, but I don't agree. In fact I don't agree that any of these were really mint state. Still, what did my tough standards get me back in 1987/88? The best coin at the right price got away, even though I had done my "research" for nearly 15 years. In another instance I let the finest known get away in 1975...on a coin I set as my goal to own. I didn't get another "affordable" shot at that until 11 years later at 6X the earlier price. That one I didn't let get away again. 40 years later...it's still the finest known by a mile. You often get one chance for that "perfect" fit coin for you....and it could be an XF45 Lincoln set with outstanding color, strike, and surfaces. Some common coins are quite scarce when "all there."
I'd recommend getting a feel for the typical quality available in your selected areas, then buy something nicer than that. It doesn't matter if it's a circ Lincoln penny set or a run of MS65 Morgans. Make sure your XF 1933 Lincoln is in the top 5-20% of the assigned grade range based on surfaces, strike, marks, and eye appeal. Do the same thing for a MS65 Morgan. There are too many coins out there for the most part. This is the way to whittle it down a lot and build some potential into your sets/runs.
FIRST:
What do you want to collect? Why? Define your goals to series/types/better dates/sets, grades, circ or MS/PF, dollar range, enjoyment vs. profit motives, total time spent per week, etc. These selections will make all the difference in the world. And really none of us can give you guidance until those elements are decided. It's going to be hard to ignore the profit/loss potential. I doubt that less than 5% of all the members here could state that they don't care about prices when they buy or sell...it's just for the enjoyment.
Don't just buy to get your feet wet. Mistakes will not only cost you $$ but they will wear on your psyche making it only harder to pull the trigger next time around. You don't want to end up with a mish-mash of a few dozen coins that represent nothing but a pile of coins. I concur that you shouldn't get hyped up into set completion. Sets are almost always just the sum of the parts...only very few exceptions (like TDN's dollar sets). In many sets, the only coins worthy of being in the set are the keys, semi-keys, and scarce dates.....the rest just fill up the holes and can be readily replaced (exception: Doctor Duckor's $20 Saint or Barber half dollar sets...even his "common" dates were uncommonly).
Take your time and poke around wherever you can. While you can read plenty from books and catalogs....the primary means to avoid getting ripped off is looking at coins...and grading/pricing them. The Heritage Auction archives are one of the easiest sources to navigate to look at thousands of coins in whatever area you choose. You will see differences in surface quality/dipping/cleanings/toning, etc. that will awaken you. Those photos are darn good and you can learn a lot looking at expanded photos.
Making money is business and not as much fun!
Don't look to do both. It will never happen.
The BIG key to enjoyment is the friends you make along the way.
Friends are always more important money, hands down!
It makes sense to develop an appreciation for coins and reasonable expectations in connection with building a collection. Consider how rarity and condition rarity fits into those expectations. Attending coin shows to just see what is available and what might just be of interest to you as a collector is a great place to meet collectors and see how the hobby operates. Seeing coins in hand is critical- far better than images in terms of grading and understanding strikes, lustre, wear and even originality.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Do a search for my 10,000 post with a list of lessons learned
Lessons Learned
TDN's 10,000 post......enjoy.
We're all expecting something big for post 25,000.
TDN's advice about not bidding sight unseen has lots of merit, especially for non-generic coins. I was looking at some auction lot listings this week and noted an impressive looking MS63 coin. It looked fresh to the market to me and nice for the grade. It wasn't a coin you often see. After checking pops and prices I was thinking of putting down a bid. But, something told me to check previous auction archives. And then I found it. A couple years ago it was a MS62. The old auction photo was far less impressive than the current photo. And the coin was far from "stunning" as a MS62. I'll post it once the auction runs its course. No Santa Claus here.
Coin collecting is a hobby, just enjoy it.
Making money is business and not as much fun!
Don't look to do both. It will never happen.
The BIG key to enjoyment is the friends you make along the way.
Friends are always more important money, hands down!
If you are a collector, this is the best advice.
If you want to be a dealer, buy low is the best strategy since when you sell, your price has to be competitive.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
I found a mentor and went to school on him for over a year before I bought my first coin. If a mentor isn't possible buy the book before the coin.
Good luck
mark
Read. Go view auction coins, in person, whatever series you choose. Predict prices and review results.
A good free education.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
It doesn't matter if you're collecting EF Washington quarters or Proof Morgans - do yourself an immense favor and sell one every so often.
2.) Don't be afraid to ask for help. I've PM'd some of this boards 'heavy hitters' in the past asking for advice. In some cases we're talking about guys buying and selling coins worth more than my house. In other cases guys that have literally written the book on a particular series. In EVERY instance, they've always written back a thoughtful, helpful response and offered even more advice or guidance - even if we'd never conversed before.
Go to shows if possible.
Listen and learn while looking at lots of coins.
Trust your eye and
yeah, what he said.
Websites like Vamworld are an invaluable source for Morgan and Peace dollars
Cherrypicking for grade (not easy) or for variety (time consuming) is both rewarding and allows you to make mistakes and not get financially buried.
One or two nice cherrypicks can carry you through many months of mistakes and takes away the financial sting of these mistakes.
I plan on taking the ANA course so use every resource for education.
Submitting coins to PCGS is a good way to evaluate your grading skills.
Pick one series in the beginning and run with it. Personally, I have focused on nothing but Morgan VAM's in the past six months. It's been a fruitless search many days but I have memorized a number of VAM's, dates, and their PUP's
Use other series to help fund other purchases or for a needed diversion.