Are coins in OGH holders graded conservatively enough to justify re-submission?
rAbrams
Posts: 5
Hello,
Recurrent lurker, first time poster.
I have been collecting for not much more than a year now, and I am still learning as much everyday as I did when I was just beginning, so I will apologize ahead of time if this is somewhat of an obvious or newbie question:
Are coins housed in OGH slabs generally worth sending back in for re-grading? Or does it really depend on the particular coin in question?
The conclusions of the articles I have read so far range from resounding absolutely's to equally resounding absolutely not's, which has me very confused. The general consensus of the articles is that, yes, the grading was more conservative overall in the late 80's and early 90's (that's what I have ascertained, not exactly my own experience considering I had yet to be born when PCGS was founded) but that does not necessarily imply that every single coin in an OGH is undergraded in comparison to the modern standards and, therefore, able to be sent back for a higher grade.
The following scans are of the specific coin I believe to be "undergraded":
It is currently in an OGH and graded MS-65 FB. However, from what I've seen lately in regards to coins of the same series and grade, it really seems to me to be deserving of a bump up. Please, though, don't hesitate to correct me if I am off my rocker for thinking that.
So, am I even near to reasonable with my opinion or is this just scatological?
PS - What is your opinion on modern grading? Do you think the grading was more accurate back then or more so now? Or, even, that the grading nowadays is only the way it is because of money? I.e., PCGS, will be able to charge more for the submission of a higher grade (and, in turn, more valuable coin) if they are more lax in their grading approach.
Hopefully that last part isn't considered sacrilege here...
Thanks for taking the time to read my first post!
Recurrent lurker, first time poster.
I have been collecting for not much more than a year now, and I am still learning as much everyday as I did when I was just beginning, so I will apologize ahead of time if this is somewhat of an obvious or newbie question:
Are coins housed in OGH slabs generally worth sending back in for re-grading? Or does it really depend on the particular coin in question?
The conclusions of the articles I have read so far range from resounding absolutely's to equally resounding absolutely not's, which has me very confused. The general consensus of the articles is that, yes, the grading was more conservative overall in the late 80's and early 90's (that's what I have ascertained, not exactly my own experience considering I had yet to be born when PCGS was founded) but that does not necessarily imply that every single coin in an OGH is undergraded in comparison to the modern standards and, therefore, able to be sent back for a higher grade.
The following scans are of the specific coin I believe to be "undergraded":
It is currently in an OGH and graded MS-65 FB. However, from what I've seen lately in regards to coins of the same series and grade, it really seems to me to be deserving of a bump up. Please, though, don't hesitate to correct me if I am off my rocker for thinking that.
So, am I even near to reasonable with my opinion or is this just scatological?
PS - What is your opinion on modern grading? Do you think the grading was more accurate back then or more so now? Or, even, that the grading nowadays is only the way it is because of money? I.e., PCGS, will be able to charge more for the submission of a higher grade (and, in turn, more valuable coin) if they are more lax in their grading approach.
Hopefully that last part isn't considered sacrilege here...
Thanks for taking the time to read my first post!
0
Comments
A lot are but aren't worth the money to try
Want some grading fun? Just send it to CAC.
Great first question and welcome.
You'll get a number of different opinions, but like you said it does depend on the coin.
Unfortunately grading standards change over time. Some say the OGH period was a time when grading standards were tighter and might grade higher today.
But it depends on the coin. Today we also have CAC stickers which can indicate if a coin is strong for the grade or a good candidate for an upgrade. Of course not all do.
There are no generalities, generally. Some OGH coins merit upgrades, others don't. So yes, it does depend on the particular coin. Many, if not most, have already been picked over. So the odds, perhaps, are lower.
PCGS has a "reconsideration" service which allows coins to be reviewed for upgrades before cracking them out of their holders. If a coin can't upgrade it will be returned in the same, desirable holder.
Grading is neither more or less accurate. It is the standards that change. They were a little tighter in the OGH era but it hasn't been a steady loosening. This is one of the reasons the TPG's use random certificate numbers, for the most part. It would be bad for the hobby if it was widely felt that coins within a range of cert numbers were graded more loosely.
As for your dime, it looks lovely but I don't know if it will earn a higher grade. Before spending money on it you might get an in-hand opinion from a very experienced collector or dealer. Accurate grading from pictures is often difficult.
Lance.
edited to add: going by the price guide, a 65FB 1944-S is worth $40 retail. At 66FB it is a $55 coin. At 67FB it's worth $275. So ask yourself if it's wise to spend $50 to find out. I'm not sure it's worth getting CAC'd.
Some are, some aren't.
A lot are but aren't worth the money to try
That's it in a nut shell.
It is true that sometimes OGH coins are undergraded. However, as time marches on, it becomes less likely because many clearly undergraded coins have already been cracked out. But there are still many common date undergraded Mercury dimes and Buffalo nickels and Morgan dollars that remain in OGHs because the financial "upside" of cracking them (after paying the regrading fee) is less than the value of the next grade up.....as other wise members here have already pointed out.
Either way, it's fun!!
I suppose I would need to find some one to take high quality photos of the coin as well as an expert to take a look at it in hand to both get a more representative photographic display as well as get a better idea of how the high MS grades are determined. As most novice collectors are able to, I can distinguish between the lower grades quite easily, but when it gets up in the stratosphere I become totally lost.
@Ikeigwin "Grading is neither more or less accurate. It is the standards that change."
That's a great way of putting it, thank you. Makes perfect sense.
Also, though, it poses a question in my mind as to whether the original ANA grading system is still the go to authority. Or has it become more of a suggestion than a strict set of rules?
Keep the OGH and send it to CAC.
Mike
Looks to be a terrific coin, however go through a cost benefit analysis as part of any decision in terms of re-submitting or other options
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
OGH, not Rattlers, are overgraded, for the most part, by today's standards. I actually do not even look at them on eBay anymore. Just scroll right past.
I guess a hobby within the hobby wb buying OGH coins, sending to CAC. I bet a larger percentage would sticker.
OGH, not Rattlers, are overgraded, for the most part, by today's standards. I actually do not even look at them on eBay anymore. Just scroll right past.
This makes no sense to me as the OGH's came out from around 1990-1998, before the variation in grading standards really got going (ie 1997-2008). What I would agree with is that the majority of OGH's remaining won't upgrade (most have been cracked out in search of higher grades).
Today's standards are still looser than during the 1986-1998 period. How could it be any other way?
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Cheers, RickO
In regards to all OGH coins; I believe the vast majority that were worth resubmitting have already been resubmitted. Thus most of the OGH's found at shows and on-line auctions are graded correctly.
Unfortunately, coin collecting has increasingly become nothing more than a money oriented grading game. As a new poster the question you should be asking yourself is: Do I want to play that game?
You know, I have been considering that exact question lately. When I did first begin collecting (found two well worn silver dollars, a '21 Morgan and '22 Peace, in my grandmother's dresser while cleaning out the house after she passed) I was fascinated with the history, artistry and potential tales the coins could tell if they could speak. Honestly, even when I did my initial research and found out they had any value over their denomination, I was still much more interested in the coins themselves than their values.
But then I went down to a coin shop that I had passed about a thousand times on my way to and from work and sought the owners advice. I told him I was brand new and looking to expand my knowledge a bit on collecting and he told me what he said he wished he was told when he began collecting:
"Quality over quantity."
Is there any merit to that considering I'm not at all trying to strike it rich or anything even close? Certainly I can understand how some one who wants to make this hobby their profession must be very mindful of that, but all I'm aiming to accomplish in collecting is to have a little fun with it. Hobbies are supposed to be fun after all. Of course, I'm not going to burn myself with a purchase just because I really like the coin, I definitely try to be mindful of a good deal, but that whole "money oriented grading game" doesn't exactly register on my radar. However, it would be hard to complain about making a few bucks in the process of collecting.
In fact, in reference to that mercury dime I posted and was considering getting an updated professional opinion on, I was really only thinking that it would be cool to have a "classic" coin in a grade higher than 65 since I've yet to own one. The price differentials between the two grades had almost nothing to do with it.
So, sorry for the long answer to a short question, I would say no, I'm not interested in playing the grading game, I just want to enjoy the coins. Yet, it's hard for me to not take into consideration what the shop owner told me when I do go to purchase any given coin.