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Does this look right? 1909-S Indian on eBay

From one of our "favorite" eBay sellers, the following auction ends tonight; 351670763944

You can also find it through the search; 1909-S XF avidly

Something about the planchet looks wrong. Also odd is how the "S" appears. It looks possibly added? I could be totally out to lunch but I thought it wouldn't hurt to run it by the good people here. Opinions anyone? Thanks!
Lincoln coin lover, especially Matte Proofs

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .

    link

    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • deefree49deefree49 Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the link Lance! I'm a little lame doing those things being an old non-techie type of guy. Appreciated!

    So what do you think? Real, not real or maybe real?
    Lincoln coin lover, especially Matte Proofs
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭
    looks recolored and the S is weird maybe partially filled but still suspect.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks quite similar to a spark-erosion transfer counterfeit. Below are some photos

    from Rick Snow's Attribution Guide that look an awful lot alike to the Ebay coin.

    Good eye.

    Jim



    image

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: jesbroken
    It looks quite similar to a spark-erosion transfer counterfeit. Below are some photos
    from Rick Snow's Attribution Guide that look an awful lot alike to the Ebay coin.
    Good eye.
    Jim

    image



    Good catch.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭

    The eBay coin appears to have a bag mark directly across the MM causing it to look similar to the counterfeit MM from Rick Snow. I'm not defending Great Southern, but be careful before declaring it a fake.



    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are right, Shamika, and that is why I plainly stated it looked quite similar to Rick Snow's example. I offered the photo's for comparison and in no way would accuse anyone. I knew as soon as I saw the mintmark, with no consideration for the ding, that it appeared thicker than most mintmarks I had viewed. I feel some far better qualified than myself, may offer their opinions later today.

    Jim

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regardless of whether or not the coin is legit, the look is horrible. I'd pass this one at least by the length of a barge pole.

    Cheers

    Bob
  • deefree49deefree49 Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    I hear you on that score Bob. There is another thing about the coin that disturbs my eye, the planchet seems a little "unstable". What I mean by that is that it seems to be peeling in some spots and the surface has the look of some of the counterfeit S-VDBs I've seen around. I wouldn't rush to judgment either though and that is why I took the leap to put it out for you all to look over. I thought those here with a lot of experience might recognize something they've seen before.



    I know we all get pretty steamed over the unscrupulous element in the coin market and shared vigilance certainly is one of the best defenses we have.
    Lincoln coin lover, especially Matte Proofs
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would advice collectors only to purchase key dates like this in a certification holder from a TPG who employs people who know what they are doing.

    When I was dealer, I was willing to buy these coins raw, but I always got them certified before I would sell them.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • deefree49deefree49 Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    Jim, Thank you very much for the Rick Snow images. That is quite awesome! I'm really very surprised at the similarity. As stated, it could just be a bad ding that spread out the metal on the "S" but what's on the coin really looks spot on to the research you shared here. Thank you very much for the contribution; clearly very appropriate to the "mystery".
    Lincoln coin lover, especially Matte Proofs
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agreed. Cleaned, recolored and otherwise NOT desirable.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The position of the mintmark in relation to the other design elements and the denticles is correct. There are only two dies for the reverse 1909-S and this looks like the one with an outline to the denticles to the left of the mintmark. The coin is terrible looking, but probably OK.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not without being certified by a TOP III service.



    Ok, so I am cautious.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks authentic (and Rick Snow states as much)... but not a great example... I would opt

    for a better coin. Cheers, RickO

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