This is one of my favorite threads on this forum. I've been meaning to post a few pictures of all the art, history and numismatic related symbols I see in the city I work in. Everywhere I go, I see a statue, architecture or something that contains a numismatic theme or symbol.
I now thought it was very relevant to post these two statues with all the craziness going on across the country.
I think that regardless of what your political views are, history is history and we should always remember it, study it and learn from it... not destroy it or try to white wash it. Much of history wasn't pretty, but if we don't remember it, we are doomed to repeat it and I think ripping statues down is adding to the issue...
Anyway, here is one of my favorite statues that can be found in Bushnell Park in Hartford, CT. Beautiful depiction of Lady Liberty resembling the St. Gaudens double eagle with an eagle that looks very similar to the flying eagle cent/Gobrechet Dollar.
This is another beautiful statue that can be found right across the street from where the Mitchelson Collection is kept. Remind you of a commemorative half dollar?
WingedLiberty1957 once again has favored the US Coin Forum and forumites with a work product that is fantastic. A testament to talents and abilities far beyond those of 99.999999% of the population. His 21 window poster would look good hanging on the walls of dealers and collectors alike.
Had the privilege of meeting Randy Teton (model for Sacawajea) today at the Blue Ridge Numismatic Show in Dalton GA. Thanks again for a great thread Paul!
Great information in this thread and a lot of excellent images.
I hope I have this information roughly correct, I tried to research a bit on the fly, but cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, but hopefully close.
I don't want to derail a great thread, but the first comparison of Anne Willing Bingham as the supposed model for the Draped Bust designs needs to be addressed. I will post facts below, and people can decide for themselves.
Don Taxay in his book on the US Mint stated it is "tempting to speculate" on the possible identity of the Draped Bust. This was only speculation, but it has been erroneously written as fact by numerous authors since Taxay's 1966 speculation.
There has been no evidence uncovered since Taxay's speculation that ties Bingham to the Draped Bust design. Also, there is no evidence of Gilbert Stuart providing a drawing, other than the supposed family tale, 66 years after the design of the Draped Bust.
There is no evidence of Robert Scot ever using a live model or painting for any of his coin engravings. There is a statement from an engraver who worked on the same projects as Scot stating that he cut his designs freehand.
Another statement was made by member Rittenhouse in a thread from 4-19-2007:
The first mention of a possible connection is by Snowden in 1861 who said that a Stuart family member told him Gilbert designed the head of Liberty in 1795 and supposedly made the disparaging remarks about the earlier design. This is some 65 YEARS AFTER THE FACT and based on family tale. Furthermore, rather than substantiating the tale the disparaging remarks quoted by Snowden make the story even more unbelievable. What, they had a written statement by Gilbert? Oh no, they just passed it down thru the family remembering it word for word. Sure. This sort of this is one of the real "tells" to a family myth.
In 1966 Taxay then sez it looks similar to the famous painting to him. Personally other than the big hooters I don't see a resemblance.
So there's no archival evidence. Oh yeah, it's lost. The story teller's favorite excuse. Sorry that doesn't wash with me. Funny how every time I went into the archives I found records, but the tale tellers can't. Lemme see, we have records of Voigt engraviing the first designs, we have records for Wright, we have record for Moritz Furst, we have records for Gobrecht doing models in the late 1820s, we have records for Titian Peale and Sully, but Stuart is magically missing.
Sorry, no sale. This is a myth created over half a century after the fact based on family tale, embellished by Taxay's speculation and perpetuated by folks who like a good story. Show me a record.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
@Manifest_Destiny said:
Awesome thread! I've been in the coin hobby 40+ years and never knew the Draped Bust design was based on a real person.
@Nysoto said:
Great information in this thread and a lot of excellent images.
I hope I have this information roughly correct, I tried to research a bit on the fly, but cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, but hopefully close.
I don't want to derail a great thread, but the first comparison of Anne Willing Bingham as the supposed model for the Draped Bust designs needs to be addressed. I will post facts below, and people can decide for themselves.
Don Taxay in his book on the US Mint stated it is "tempting to speculate" on the possible identity of the Draped Bust. This was only speculation, but it has been erroneously written as fact by numerous authors since Taxay's 1966 speculation.
There has been no evidence uncovered since Taxay's speculation that ties Bingham to the Draped Bust design. Also, there is no evidence of Gilbert Stuart providing a drawing, other than the supposed family tale, 66 years after the design of the Draped Bust.
There is no evidence of Robert Scot ever using a live model or painting for any of his coin engravings. There is a statement from an engraver who worked on the same projects as Scot stating that he cut his designs freehand.
Another statement was made by member Rittenhouse in a thread from 4-19-2007:
The first mention of a possible connection is by Snowden in 1861 who said that a Stuart family member told him Gilbert designed the head of Liberty in 1795 and supposedly made the disparaging remarks about the earlier design. This is some 65 YEARS AFTER THE FACT and based on family tale. Furthermore, rather than substantiating the tale the disparaging remarks quoted by Snowden make the story even more unbelievable. What, they had a written statement by Gilbert? Oh no, they just passed it down thru the family remembering it word for word. Sure. This sort of this is one of the real "tells" to a family myth.
In 1966 Taxay then sez it looks similar to the famous painting to him. Personally other than the big hooters I don't see a resemblance.
So there's no archival evidence. Oh yeah, it's lost. The story teller's favorite excuse. Sorry that doesn't wash with me. Funny how every time I went into the archives I found records, but the tale tellers can't. Lemme see, we have records of Voigt engraviing the first designs, we have records for Wright, we have record for Moritz Furst, we have records for Gobrecht doing models in the late 1820s, we have records for Titian Peale and Sully, but Stuart is magically missing.
Sorry, no sale. This is a myth created over half a century after the fact based on family tale, embellished by Taxay's speculation and perpetuated by folks who like a good story. Show me a record.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Great information in this thread and a lot of excellent images.
I hope I have this information roughly correct, I tried to research a bit on the fly, but cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, but hopefully close.
I don't want to derail a great thread, but the first comparison of Anne Willing Bingham as the supposed model for the Draped Bust designs needs to be addressed. I will post facts below, and people can decide for themselves.
Don Taxay in his book on the US Mint stated it is "tempting to speculate" on the possible identity of the Draped Bust. This was only speculation, but it has been erroneously written as fact by numerous authors since Taxay's 1966 speculation.
There has been no evidence uncovered since Taxay's speculation that ties Bingham to the Draped Bust design. Also, there is no evidence of Gilbert Stuart providing a drawing, other than the supposed family tale, 66 years after the design of the Draped Bust.
There is no evidence of Robert Scot ever using a live model or painting for any of his coin engravings. There is a statement from an engraver who worked on the same projects as Scot stating that he cut his designs freehand.
Another statement was made by member Rittenhouse in a thread from 4-19-2007:
The first mention of a possible connection is by Snowden in 1861 who said that a Stuart family member told him Gilbert designed the head of Liberty in 1795 and supposedly made the disparaging remarks about the earlier design. This is some 65 YEARS AFTER THE FACT and based on family tale. Furthermore, rather than substantiating the tale the disparaging remarks quoted by Snowden make the story even more unbelievable. What, they had a written statement by Gilbert? Oh no, they just passed it down thru the family remembering it word for word. Sure. This sort of this is one of the real "tells" to a family myth.
In 1966 Taxay then sez it looks similar to the famous painting to him. Personally other than the big hooters I don't see a resemblance.
So there's no archival evidence. Oh yeah, it's lost. The story teller's favorite excuse. Sorry that doesn't wash with me. Funny how every time I went into the archives I found records, but the tale tellers can't. Lemme see, we have records of Voigt engraviing the first designs, we have records for Wright, we have record for Moritz Furst, we have records for Gobrecht doing models in the late 1820s, we have records for Titian Peale and Sully, but Stuart is magically missing.
Sorry, no sale. This is a myth created over half a century after the fact based on family tale, embellished by Taxay's speculation and perpetuated by folks who like a good story. Show me a record.
Here is the Scot/Eckstein obverse design concept (reverse was Scot). As Scot was Chief Engraver, he completed the final design on the obverse master die (dime shown, same obv design)
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
Comments
This is one of my favorite threads on this forum. I've been meaning to post a few pictures of all the art, history and numismatic related symbols I see in the city I work in. Everywhere I go, I see a statue, architecture or something that contains a numismatic theme or symbol.
I now thought it was very relevant to post these two statues with all the craziness going on across the country.
I think that regardless of what your political views are, history is history and we should always remember it, study it and learn from it... not destroy it or try to white wash it. Much of history wasn't pretty, but if we don't remember it, we are doomed to repeat it and I think ripping statues down is adding to the issue...
Anyway, here is one of my favorite statues that can be found in Bushnell Park in Hartford, CT. Beautiful depiction of Lady Liberty resembling the St. Gaudens double eagle with an eagle that looks very similar to the flying eagle cent/Gobrechet Dollar.
This is another beautiful statue that can be found right across the street from where the Mitchelson Collection is kept. Remind you of a commemorative half dollar?
Nice to see this thread again...with a great addition by @ShadyDave .... Cheers, RickO
Great thread and photos.
WingedLiberty1957 once again has favored the US Coin Forum and forumites with a work product that is fantastic. A testament to talents and abilities far beyond those of 99.999999% of the population. His 21 window poster would look good hanging on the walls of dealers and collectors alike.
Great info, thanks for sharing this with us
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Pardon if this is inappropriate but Teresa de Francisci was a stone-cold fox. In her day or any day.
Had the privilege of meeting Randy Teton (model for Sacawajea) today at the Blue Ridge Numismatic Show in Dalton GA. Thanks again for a great thread Paul!
Excellent post!!@!
Great information in this thread and a lot of excellent images.
I don't want to derail a great thread, but the first comparison of Anne Willing Bingham as the supposed model for the Draped Bust designs needs to be addressed. I will post facts below, and people can decide for themselves.
Don Taxay in his book on the US Mint stated it is "tempting to speculate" on the possible identity of the Draped Bust. This was only speculation, but it has been erroneously written as fact by numerous authors since Taxay's 1966 speculation.
There has been no evidence uncovered since Taxay's speculation that ties Bingham to the Draped Bust design. Also, there is no evidence of Gilbert Stuart providing a drawing, other than the supposed family tale, 66 years after the design of the Draped Bust.
There is no evidence of Robert Scot ever using a live model or painting for any of his coin engravings. There is a statement from an engraver who worked on the same projects as Scot stating that he cut his designs freehand.
Another statement was made by member Rittenhouse in a thread from 4-19-2007:
Do you think Madonna was familiar with that Liberty statue in Hartford?
Very pretty group of coins!
It was indeed eye candy, until Susan B. and Ike showed up....
Now we need Megan Fox to model for a coin to balance this out.
i stumbled across this 6 year old thread of mine. Anyone have any additions (or corrections) to what I posted.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Awesome thread! I've been in the coin hobby 40+ years and never knew the Draped Bust design was based on a real person.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Cool thread, I especially like how close the portrait matches the coin for the Morgan dollar
Mr_Spud
I hope I have this information roughly correct, I tried to research a bit on the fly, but cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, but hopefully close.
I don't want to derail a great thread, but the first comparison of Anne Willing Bingham as the supposed model for the Draped Bust designs needs to be addressed. I will post facts below, and people can decide for themselves.
Don Taxay in his book on the US Mint stated it is "tempting to speculate" on the possible identity of the Draped Bust. This was only speculation, but it has been erroneously written as fact by numerous authors since Taxay's 1966 speculation.
There has been no evidence uncovered since Taxay's speculation that ties Bingham to the Draped Bust design. Also, there is no evidence of Gilbert Stuart providing a drawing, other than the supposed family tale, 66 years after the design of the Draped Bust.
There is no evidence of Robert Scot ever using a live model or painting for any of his coin engravings. There is a statement from an engraver who worked on the same projects as Scot stating that he cut his designs freehand.
Another statement was made by member Rittenhouse in a thread from 4-19-2007:
The first mention of a possible connection is by Snowden in 1861 who said that a Stuart family member told him Gilbert designed the head of Liberty in 1795 and supposedly made the disparaging remarks about the earlier design. This is some 65 YEARS AFTER THE FACT and based on family tale. Furthermore, rather than substantiating the tale the disparaging remarks quoted by Snowden make the story even more unbelievable. What, they had a written statement by Gilbert? Oh no, they just passed it down thru the family remembering it word for word. Sure. This sort of this is one of the real "tells" to a family myth.
In 1966 Taxay then sez it looks similar to the famous painting to him. Personally other than the big hooters I don't see a resemblance.
So there's no archival evidence. Oh yeah, it's lost. The story teller's favorite excuse. Sorry that doesn't wash with me. Funny how every time I went into the archives I found records, but the tale tellers can't. Lemme see, we have records of Voigt engraviing the first designs, we have records for Wright, we have record for Moritz Furst, we have records for Gobrecht doing models in the late 1820s, we have records for Titian Peale and Sully, but Stuart is magically missing.
Sorry, no sale. This is a myth created over half a century after the fact based on family tale, embellished by Taxay's speculation and perpetuated by folks who like a good story. Show me a record.
"Neither Stuart nor Anne Willing Bingham had any role." Quote from Harry Salyards advertising his new book on Draped Bust Small Eagle Dollars. He debunked the Stuart/Bingham myth, which was discussed in this thread https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1088177/gilbert-stuart-had-nothing-to-do-with-the-draped-bust-design
Here is the Scot/Eckstein obverse design concept (reverse was Scot). As Scot was Chief Engraver, he completed the final design on the obverse master die (dime shown, same obv design)