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Counterfeit Gold $2.50 1907 Liberty

WindycityWindycity Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
Test positive as gold but has to be a counterfeit. Soft strike with many small die file lines, rough surfaces and a generally weak detail strike. Tried to take closeup images showing many of the die files lines and weakness in Liberty's hair. Note die file lines by star above Liberty, by S of STATES on reverse and coming out of Eagles wing in same photos, rough surfaces and die file line below arrow feathers and above 1/2.

Welcome comments and any other observations.

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Comments

  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huh. I'll be watching this with interest. I wouldn't have noticed anything suspect.
    mirabela
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pretty confident counterfeit

    Had one exactly the same as this one come in yesterday with a handful of small gold.

    But you might check with an expert
  • DaveWcoinsDaveWcoins Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭
    Excellent info and photos.



    This coin was likely made (purportedly) in Lebanon in the 1950's-1960's, as it shares many characteristics of coins coming out of that area during that time period.





    Note that the cartwheel luster seems a bit "off," but the biggest "tell" with these are the somewhat softened details, as you mentioned.
    Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow! Very interested in this as well
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The weak strike on the obverse is the real give-away. By 1907 U.S. gold Liberty coins were all quite sharply stuck. Here is an example to show what I mean.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great pics. The "spikes" coming from the dentils (tool marks) denote a fake, as already pointed out. Liberty's forehead is very granular, and there seems to be a large depression on her neck.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The denticles caught my eye---they're a bit uneven.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

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  • NewEnglandRaritiesNewEnglandRarities Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting. I totally see it after the pictures, but if someone showed me that coin before, I would have never guessed counterfeit! I learn something new everyday on this forum!!
    New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The stars seem like the ones the grand kids make at Christmas. They are cut out of the dough perfectly but mush out in the oven.



    bobimage
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  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ive had 2 very very well made pieces come in last year. We suspect Lebanon pieces just for now nicely they were made. Only signs that we could pick up were fine tooling marks, mostly in the dentiles. Much like your piece the dentiles were not consistent and had a slight odd look about them.
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    weren't the Lebanon counterfeits made of proper alloy and weight gold ?
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer
    weren't the Lebanon counterfeits made of proper alloy and weight gold ?


    Exactly, and that is why so many are still around.
  • Jackthecat1Jackthecat1 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭
    Very deceptive, for sure.
    Member ANS, ANA, GSNA, TNC



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  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Could be from Lebanon or from US 1930's when people minted their own gold coin to be exempt from confiscation.
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    weren't the Lebanon counterfeits made of proper alloy and weight gold ?


    I've always wondered about that -- what exactly was the point of this counterfeiting operation? It's not like common date QE's in indifferent Unc condition would have been worth much of a numismatic premium in the 50's. Making them would have been expensive. What was the gain?
    mirabela
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: mirabela
    weren't the Lebanon counterfeits made of proper alloy and weight gold ?


    I've always wondered about that -- what exactly was the point of this counterfeiting operation? It's not like common date QE's in indifferent Unc condition would have been worth much of a numismatic premium in the 50's. Making them would have been expensive. What was the gain?


    They copied US coins because they were credible and excepted in trade. Nothing to do with coin collectors needs.
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They copied US coins because they were credible and excepted in trade. Nothing to do with coin collectors needs.


    That's really interesting. So basically pre-1933 US gold was an accepted currency (like the various European sovereign/ducat-type coins were, or the Sacagawea / President dollars are now in South America, say) and some state or business entity with gold to coin thought it better to mint knockoff Liberty quarter eagles than original local designs. Wow. I never knew.
    mirabela
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    I believe it was due to gold bullion being illegal to own in the US. yet rare coins were exempt from this,
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer
    I believe it was due to gold bullion being illegal to own in the US. yet rare coins were exempt from this,


    THIS
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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good catch and interesting identification.... learned something here today... a good day.

    Cheers, RickO

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