Let's talk about Fishscales.

Flatwoods

Fish scales, trimes, three centers, whatever you call them they are tiny little things.

I have always found them interesting.

They have never been overly popular with collectors. I imagine the size has a lot to do with that.

I can't imagine them being very popular back when they were introduced either. It seems they would be very easily lost.



I have never heard of anyone collecting them specifically but I'm sure they are out there.



The good news is, with the increasing popularity of numismatic photography, they are more easily enjoyed now days. Maybe with more people taking pics of their coins, these little coins will gain a little in popularity.



How do you feel about them?



If you have any you would like to show off post 'em here.

Walkerguy21D

I posted this one on the thread last night, where the topic was about the varieties and popular dates for type set

collectors. I have other lower grade pieces with original skin, but I just like the look of this one, and the

prominent clashing adds to it. An attractive and inexpensive choice for the 7070.

mercurydimeguy

RichieURich

Here is the 1869/8 proof from the Gene Gardner collection.

I sold it to Gene and bought it back for my personal collection at his auction.

kaz

mdg's has about the best strike I've seen on a regular issue trime, wow. 2nd wow for Rich's piece!



I have this little guy to contribute, not much in the eye appeal dept.

Gazes

Very nice! Beautiful ! Great coin rich

renman95

I like 3c. Smoetimes you don't have to flip them over to see the other side.

msch1man

I think it's a fascinating denomination and an interesting design...mainly because the design really doesn't seem to 'fit' with other US issues. Especially the reverse, if you showed just the reverse to someone that didn't know about the issue, I very seriously doubt they'd guess it was a US coin. I think the size is definitely what holds the series back from being more popular. I don't currently have one, but I will eventually pick up an example (probably an 1851-O) and maybe eventually get an example to represent all 3 types. Seems like most of the ones I see have less than full strikes in particular on the shield on the obverse and the stars on the reverse. As others have stated, mdg's appears to have an outstanding strike - most have completely flat stars that I've seen.

Flatwoods

Originally posted by: renman95

I like 3c. Smoetimes you don't have to flip them over to see the other side.

That made me laugh.



I think it's MOST of the time. I have more trouble finding them without clashes it seems.

Catbert

RichieURich

Kaz, I like your 1851-O. Lots of people looking for that coin, seems to me it is in demand in all grades.

ShadyDave

Originally posted by: Catbert

I like the look this one has a LOT!

kaz

Originally posted by: RichieURich

Kaz, I like your 1851-O. Lots of people looking for that coin, seems to me it is in demand in all grades.

Thanks, Rich. The reverse has that Pac-Man thing going for it, LOL.



I also have this one which I bought soon after I started collecting. It is rather darkly toned, something I've noticed about a lot of MS trimes. It's hard to get a sharp image with my photo setup. I think Catbert's is really nice.

davewesen

I like this one

USMarine6

Ive been on the lookout for one of these with a civil war date and color like some of the ones posted here.

ProofArtworkonCircs

A dateless trime was my first savable coin given to me by my father's sister about 1940. For years, I thought the design was a Roman Numeral III within a bracelet.

kaz

davewesen, that is a very cool looking trime!

Flatwoods

Originally posted by: kaz

davewesen, that is a very cool looking trime!

My favorite of the thread as well.

TopographicOceans

I only have two for my type set.

They are too small

claychaser

Here's my crusty one. With the 75% silver alloy, some of these have some very cool toning.

Lakesammman

Every time I see or handle one, I'm amazed that they (along with $1 gold pieces) have survived w/o being lost!

Walkerfan

Trimes seem to tone up very well.



They are cool little coins.



Some very nice examples here.



Maybe I will buy one someday as a type coin.

Nic

I love them. A type two ...

Shamika

Is it just me or are these found toned more often than not?

ricko

That is a really nice one Mercurydimeguy... I find these attractive, but never collected

them...I should get at least one.... Cheers, RickO

BillJones

Here's my crusty one. With the 75% silver alloy, some of these have some very cool toning.

And I've seen some of them with ugly, not so cool toning, especially on some pieces that were given Mint State grades.

I've thought about collecting them from time to time, but have gotten around to it and probably never will. The coins are neat, but like most of the "odd denomination" coins that market for them seems thin.

BStrauss3

Over the last two years I've built a set of XF40/XF45 trimes. 1851-1862.



Business strikes from 1863-1872 are very few in number, even fewer certified and even fewer in XF. Sure I look, but low expectations, limited success and budget.



Between PCGS & NGC:



1863 - 1

1864 - 3

1865 - 2

1866 - 6

1867 - 4

1868 - 1

1869 - 7

1870 - 13

1871 - 5

1872 - 9







I need to get a photo album of the set up.

Walkerguy21D

I recall a few years back at FUN discussing old collections with a dealer from the Chicago area, who had just purchased a large old estate

up there prior to the show, and brought along a number of coins to both sell and submit to PCGS.

He showed me the stack of flips containing a date run of both Proof and MS 3 cent silvers from the estate that he was submitting, assembled

many years prior, with spectacular old time toning. Very impressive.

pocketpiececommems

Lots of holed ones and well circulated dateless ones out there too

Flatwoods

You know it's kind of strange that there are so many.

Apparently not as many were lost as you'd think.

They certainly aren't scarce.

ldhair

This thread needs one of these.

ldhair

mannie gray

I've always thought they were cool- but I also like 3c nickels and Shield nickels too.

And the earlier post about the popularity of the 51-O is spot on.

Whenever I get one, it's gone in a hurry.

I just recently sold a holed and dateless 51-O for a nice profit.

Sold it at the same show I bought it.

mannie gray

Nic: that 1857 is gorgeous!

hchcoin

They must be thin because I have seen quite a few bent ones also. Make sure you put them on a flat table if they are circulated before buying one to make sure.

BillJones

Originally posted by: hchcoin
They must be thin because I have seen quite a few bent ones also. Make sure you put them on a flat table if they are circulated before buying one to make sure.

They are like a thick piece of paper. As for putting on a flat table, good luck picking it up! You will find yourself carefully trying to slide it off the end. You can't pick it up unless it is bent. That's where the name "fish scales" came from.

hchcoin

Originally posted by: BillJones

Originally posted by: hchcoin
They must be thin because I have seen quite a few bent ones also. Make sure you put them on a flat table if they are circulated before buying one to make sure.

They are like a thick piece of paper. As for putting on a flat table, good luck picking it up! You will find yourself carefully trying to slide it off the end. You can't pick it up unless it is bent. That's where the name "fish scales" came from.

So true about trying to pick them up. I didn't realize that was where the name came from.

JGnumismatics

Hey Guys, I just picked up this trime and wasn't sure what's really going on with it. It has a ton of horizontal lines running across each side and what appears to be some die clashing as well. The date also looks to have some doubling.Wasn't sure if other members have seen anything similar. Thanks in advance for any help!

acsb

Oh, definitely need to see more of those, uh, "1861"s.

Traz

Shamika

Originally posted by: JGnumismatics

Hey Guys, I just picked up this trime and wasn't sure what's really going on with it. It has a ton of horizontal lines running across each side and what appears to be some die clashing as well. The date also looks to have some doubling.Wasn't sure if other members have seen anything similar. Thanks in advance for any help!

Looks like an incomplete strike on a planchet that has heavy roller lines from when the planchet was still silver strip prior to being stamped.

CaptHenway

Originally posted by: BillJones

Originally posted by: hchcoin

They must be thin because I have seen quite a few bent ones also. Make sure you put them on a flat table if they are circulated before buying one to make sure.

***

They are like a thick piece of paper. As for putting on a flat table, good luck picking it up! You will find yourself carefully trying to slide it off the end. You can't pick it up unless it is bent. That's where the name "fish scales" came from.

Not sure about that. Back around 1988 when I was "between engagements" in the numismatic trade, I did freelance proofreading for Encyclopedia Britannica in Chicago. They were updating their "Great Books of the Western World" series, and the text I was reading from was the 1952 edition with updated translations, corrections, additions and deletions.



One of the classical Greek works (one of the comedies) had a line where a character was walking around with "fishscales" in his mouth rather than in a purse or the like. In the 1990 edition "fishscales" was changed to "Obols." Don't know who did the original translation from the Greek, but obviously to him or her "fishscales" was a slang term for a small silver coin.



TD

Nic

The type 1's often come fugly, if toned, because of the composition. The 2's and 3's can come pretty.



Like most all pre 1892 silver (dollars or rolls), anything white has been at least dipped.

lordmarcovan

(PR63, formerly in a rattler holder at the same grade)

BillJones

Originally posted by: Shamika

Originally posted by: JGnumismatics
Hey Guys, I just picked up this trime and wasn't sure what's really going on with it. It has a ton of horizontal lines running across each side and what appears to be some die clashing as well. The date also looks to have some doubling.Wasn't sure if other members have seen anything similar. Thanks in advance for any help!

Looks like an incomplete strike on a planchet that has heavy roller lines from when the planchet was still silver strip prior to being stamped.

I've seen striations like this on a number of Type II Silver Three Cent Pieces, especially the 1858 coins. I don't recall seeing them like this on a Type I, but anything is possible.

Here is the Type I thrime that is in my type set. It is graded MS-66, and it's one of the better examples I have seen.

BStrauss3

For those who didn't realize it Larry's (ldhair) 1861 is a contemporary counterfeit.

The wrong date font, non-straight lines, blobs in the outlines, etc are all dead giveaways.

Two more:

BStrauss3

And a legit 1869 business strike:

Nic

Originally posted by: BStrauss3

And a legit 1869 business strike:

That is a rare coin!

Analyst

msch1man: .. mainly because the design really doesn't seem to 'fit' with other US issues. Especially the reverse, if you showed just the reverse to someone that didn't know about the issue, I very seriously doubt they'd guess it was a US coin.



This is an interesting point, IMO. The reverse is artistically and conceptually different from those of other U.S. coins.




Rich Uhrich:Here is the 1869/8 proof from the Gene Gardner collection.
I sold it to Gene and bought it back for my personal collection at his auction.



I wish that market participants would inform me of such outcomes shortly after auctions are concluded, especially while I am writing auction reviews.



I feel honored to have had the opportunity to inspect and write about The Most Valuable Three Cent Silver Coin



I have also covered some of the least valuable. It does not cost a lot of money to acquire some Three Cent Silvers. Beginners can buy then for less than $100 per coin.



Classic U.S. silver coins for less than $100 each: 19th Century Types from Three Cent Silvers to Half Dollars

BStrauss3

The act that creates the 3cs required a different design

Library of Congress link to legislation

Sec. 11. And be it further enacted, That from and after the passage of this act, it shall be lawful to coin at the mint of the United States and its branches, a piece of the denomination and legal value of three cents, or three hundredths of a dollar, to be composed of three-fourths silver and one fourth copper, and to weigh twelve grains and three-eighths of a grain; that the said coin shall bear such devices as shall be conspicuously different from those of other silver coins, and of the gold dollar, but having the inscription Unites States of America, and its denomination and date; and that it shall be a legal tender in payment of debts for all sums of thirty cents and under. And that no ingots shall be used for the coinage of the three-cent pieces herein authorized, of which the quality differs more than five thousandths from the legal standard; and that, in adjusting the weight of said coin, the following deviations from the standard weight shall not be exceeded, namely, one half of a grain in the single piece, and one pennyweight in a thousand pieces.

Nic

50!



A new record for a trime thread?