@roadrunner said:
Every year some people wise and up and no longer do business with that type of dealer....only to be replaced by fresh meat. And that meat keeps rolling in year after year.
I often wonder how some of my local dealers with varying degrees of integrity have stayed in business for 30-40 years. Basically, they talk smooth, rarely want to buy back what they sold for a fair price, and rely on a fresh supply of customers as older ones wise up. For every person that gets burnt and doesn't return, another one takes their place.
The coin market relies on fresh newbies that have to go through the learning process of grading and evaluating problem coins. It keeps the $$ rolling in. I'd agree that 80% of buyers are either ignorant or lacking in adequate knowledge to compete with said dealers.
In the collectibles field, being really honest is almost 1 strike against you. People don't generally want to believe you when you speak the truth or are trying to give them a fair shake. They'd rather go the next guy who they don't even know, who is offering the same item (of lesser quality) for less. Why do people with stuff to sell beat feet to the wrong buyers and sell out for peanuts? I don't know...but it's how it generally works. Make a fair or strong offer, and invariably you won't get the coins.
I took up the "honesty is best mantra" early on when trying to sell coins to the public...and it never worked. Being part-shyster/huckster/promoter is usually the better business model for continued long term dealer success. For every Jim Dimmick though, there are 4-5 others using the shyster model.
Spot on. The great equalizer is the Internet - it has done more to accelerate the learning curve and increase the accessible knowledge base in coin collecting than one could expect (in the pre-Internet past) to gain from the average number of trips a hobbyist would be able to make to a reputable coin shop or coin shows. Sadly, it also gives hucksters like the subject of this post access to a huge number of either lazy or ignorant buyers. Luckily, ignorance is a treatable condition.
A better question is why am I getting 3 to 5 emails from them every day after "unsubscribing". They just pull your email off PayPal and spam you? I bought two coins from them for a little below dealer price and they were what they were and bid accordingly. But now with the incessant emails and lack of stopping them from sending to me has turned them into a full on ignore.
a high percentage of the millions who frequent eBay for coins and GSC in particular do, in the end, pay "tuition" whether they know it or not.
consider --- most of us, being over the age of 50, probably started buying coins before the internet or just at its beginning. that means we either went to shops, shows or clubs and actually interacted with other Human Beings and most probably had some sort of a mentor(whether we knew it or not). the modern day first-time collector never has to leave his home, never has interaction unless he wants it and can be easily impressed by online pictures. when they actually have coins they may not understand the problems we identify or even care.
perhaps all we can do here is keep trying to educate without stooping to denigrate.
speaking for myself, there is some aspects of the Hobby I am very, very good at, other aspects where I am learning and others still that I am as green as a 10 year old. some of our members here forget that they weren't always as smart as they think they are right now. I have kept some of my "mistakes" as reminders but if I judge by some replies, others have conveniently forgotten where they came from.
an old saying from a movie --- I was once as you are, you will be as I am.
Why do other business entities, banks, credit card companies, investment companies and a virtually endless assortment of other money making entities survive and even thrive? The worse that usually happens is they just have to give the money back, no real penalties, no limitations of service, no real social censure. I reported one dealer to the state authorities and another dealer friend who is not registered with the state nor a member of a numismatic regulatory or hobby group, but does over six figures in business, tried to get me banned from shows.
Ultimately the only way to see them punished is legally but there is a huge aversion to that in the U.S..
when is ebay going to allow buyers to block individual sellers products? Currently you can search and have individuals removed but it has to be done one search at a time and it is difficult
@davids5104 said:
when is ebay going to allow buyers to block individual sellers products? Currently you can search and have individuals removed but it has to be done one search at a time and it is difficult
Ebay will never ever do this. Page hits is what they advertise to sellers so reducing them would hurt ebay. However, I wonder if a third party would create software to allow you to search with sellers filtered. Probably not enough $ in it.
It amazes me the amount of raw coins at shows with high grades and high price tags on them. I'm always thinking, "if that coin really is that grade and the dealer really wants to sell at that price, then why doesn't he spend $25 and send it in to PCGS first?"
Why should he spend the extra $25 when apparently he doesn't have to?
@Azurescens said:
There's probably image software that can recognize the logo and replace the image with an attractive, buxom woman leaning over a display case.
In eBay's eyes they are doing nothing wrong. The fast easy return process is the same deal that allowed the old-time scam dealers to stay in ANA, PNG, etc. There are still dealers who for 40-50 years have advertised wanting to buy sliders and sell"Gems". How exactly does that work?
I was looking for a $5 gold indian head to get my 15% eBay bucks yesterday. A number of GSC coin photos kept showing up in my search. They sell a lot of coins at auctions. It was tempting to place a bid because the coins looked good in their photos. From their photos it looks like you can get a good buy. Their description of the coin also matches the photos.
I ending up buying a $5 1914 D slider AU 58 in a PCGS holder from another dealer for $475. With the eBay Bucks, it was a good deal.
The problem with their pictures and those of other similar sellers like Centsles is they are substandard. I spoke to an ebay supervisor about the problem today. No major auction company could get away in 2018 with such slipshod images, quality control or business standards or ethics.
@Boosibri said:
When I first started collecting I bid on one of their sales...looked great in the pics, right? Then I won the auction and noticed the shill bidding.
How can you tell when some one is shill bidding? Sorry I am just not familiar with that one but I want to know for future bids.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
When filling a hole, many don't look, let alone study. That is, until they're done. And the choices made along that path are usually "low grade". And few come to understanding.
@keets.... Hey Al....Your quote ' I was once as you are, you will be as I am'... was originally from a tombstone... it read.....
"As you are now so once was I, As I am now so shall you be." Cheers, RickO
Comments
Spot on. The great equalizer is the Internet - it has done more to accelerate the learning curve and increase the accessible knowledge base in coin collecting than one could expect (in the pre-Internet past) to gain from the average number of trips a hobbyist would be able to make to a reputable coin shop or coin shows. Sadly, it also gives hucksters like the subject of this post access to a huge number of either lazy or ignorant buyers. Luckily, ignorance is a treatable condition.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Their photos can make a MS62 look like a MS65, which for many coins adds quite a bit to counter the coins they lose on.
A better question is why am I getting 3 to 5 emails from them every day after "unsubscribing". They just pull your email off PayPal and spam you? I bought two coins from them for a little below dealer price and they were what they were and bid accordingly. But now with the incessant emails and lack of stopping them from sending to me has turned them into a full on ignore.
a high percentage of the millions who frequent eBay for coins and GSC in particular do, in the end, pay "tuition" whether they know it or not.
consider --- most of us, being over the age of 50, probably started buying coins before the internet or just at its beginning. that means we either went to shops, shows or clubs and actually interacted with other Human Beings and most probably had some sort of a mentor(whether we knew it or not). the modern day first-time collector never has to leave his home, never has interaction unless he wants it and can be easily impressed by online pictures. when they actually have coins they may not understand the problems we identify or even care.
perhaps all we can do here is keep trying to educate without stooping to denigrate.
speaking for myself, there is some aspects of the Hobby I am very, very good at, other aspects where I am learning and others still that I am as green as a 10 year old. some of our members here forget that they weren't always as smart as they think they are right now. I have kept some of my "mistakes" as reminders but if I judge by some replies, others have conveniently forgotten where they came from.
an old saying from a movie --- I was once as you are, you will be as I am.
Why do other business entities, banks, credit card companies, investment companies and a virtually endless assortment of other money making entities survive and even thrive? The worse that usually happens is they just have to give the money back, no real penalties, no limitations of service, no real social censure. I reported one dealer to the state authorities and another dealer friend who is not registered with the state nor a member of a numismatic regulatory or hobby group, but does over six figures in business, tried to get me banned from shows.
Ultimately the only way to see them punished is legally but there is a huge aversion to that in the U.S..
when is ebay going to allow buyers to block individual sellers products? Currently you can search and have individuals removed but it has to be done one search at a time and it is difficult
[Ebay Store - Come Visit]
Roosevelt Registry
transactions with cucamongacoin, FHC, mtinis, bigjpst, Rob41281, toyz4geo, erwindoc, add your name here!!!
Ebay will never ever do this. Page hits is what they advertise to sellers so reducing them would hurt ebay. However, I wonder if a third party would create software to allow you to search with sellers filtered. Probably not enough $ in it.
There's probably image software that can recognize the logo and replace the image with an attractive, buxom woman leaning over a display case.
Why should he spend the extra $25 when apparently he doesn't have to?
Whatever happened to the Blue Moon girls?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
In eBay's eyes they are doing nothing wrong. The fast easy return process is the same deal that allowed the old-time scam dealers to stay in ANA, PNG, etc. There are still dealers who for 40-50 years have advertised wanting to buy sliders and sell"Gems". How exactly does that work?
I was looking for a $5 gold indian head to get my 15% eBay bucks yesterday. A number of GSC coin photos kept showing up in my search. They sell a lot of coins at auctions. It was tempting to place a bid because the coins looked good in their photos. From their photos it looks like you can get a good buy. Their description of the coin also matches the photos.
I ending up buying a $5 1914 D slider AU 58 in a PCGS holder from another dealer for $475. With the eBay Bucks, it was a good deal.
The problem with their pictures and those of other similar sellers like Centsles is they are substandard. I spoke to an ebay supervisor about the problem today. No major auction company could get away in 2018 with such slipshod images, quality control or business standards or ethics.
How can you tell when some one is shill bidding? Sorry I am just not familiar with that one but I want to know for future bids.
A large Managed account on eBay (read "protected"); it is hard to get bad listings (and there have been several) removed by eBay even when blatant.
I think that Watchcount may have links to statistics on sellers like GS.
@keets.... Hey Al....Your quote ' I was once as you are, you will be as I am'... was originally from a tombstone... it read.....
"As you are now so once was I, As I am now so shall you be." Cheers, RickO
thanks, RickO, I saw it in the film "Born Losers" which was the pre-quell to "Billy Jack" with Tom Laughlin.