1869 Carson City
planonit
Posts: 525 ✭✭
Just a random thought but was the facility capable of producing coins prior to 1869? How operational was it and is there any possibility some a 1869cc at least at one time existed?
I have plans....sometimes
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Abe Curry received dies dated 1869 in November (If I remember correctly). His machinery was ready and had been tried and tested. Knowing what I do of Abe I would bet my hat that he struck coins...
It was decided that none should be struck and the die for 1869 to be returned. It was replaced with the die of 1870. It had been determined that there was not enough time left in the month plus, for enough coins to be struck to meet the demand that was anticipated.
Abe would have been like a kid in a Candy store when the dies of 1869 arrived. Why he would not have struck dollars would be unexplained. He had the dies and the go ahead. But, none have been seen as of yet.
Keep your eyes peeled for that elusive dollar that is probably out there but in a family's hold all these years.
There are several people that I would expect to have received one. The two editors of the local papers among others come to immediate mind. Perhaps one of the reporters, like Alf Doten? Governor Blasdel? Maybe still in his family today.
bob
Just a random thought but was the facility capable of producing coins prior to 1869? How operational was it and is there any possibility some a 1869cc at least at one time existed?
Why would you even utter such things here, don't you know I'm OCD and if there is even a hint of possibility I'd look until my eyes could no longer see
According to Rusty Goe, The Mint on Carson Street, the mint building was not completed until and opened in January 1870.
I thought it was December but still that is sort of vague. I mean it is not like January came and BAM the mint was there read to fire up. It might not of been 100% completed till January but that does not mean it was not at all capable of minting coins many months prior.
Just saying.
Personnel was the biggest problem. The coiner was one of the last to be approved and hired (all hiring of employees had to be approved prior to their employment). With the addition of the coiner minting could certainly have begun with those 1869 dies.
Just find one and the rest of the story can be told.
Hmmmmmm, not legal to own I would suspect as he was never authorized to release them. Coins if struck would have been sent back for examination before the go ahead could have been issued. No record of that happening that I'm able to find here in Nevada. Perhaps someone in the east can examine the communications between the Mint and the east for that answer? On my bucket list to do.
bob
(Totally kidding, please don't call the feds.
Who wants to meet me in Carson City at midnight with a few sledgehammers and take it to the cornerstone of the old building? I'm sure there's nothing hidden in there....
(Totally kidding, please don't call the feds.
The corner stone was laid years before,,,,,,,but I'll meet you anyway!!
bob
My coin photography skills are just as bad on the road, so even if there were an 1869 coinI wouldn't be able to prove it.
Bob Julian will have an article in the March 2016 Gobrecht Journal discussing striking dates & mintages for 1870-CC dollars.
If they did not have to send examples to verify that the coins were up to snuff before they opened a mint, I would be surprised.
I believe I've read and have in my notes that examples would have had to be sent and coins examined for weight, size, striking pressure and such. Blank planches would as well need to be examined before the okay was given. I'll look through my notes from the State archives at the University of Nevada campus for that info.
bob
The corner stone was laid years before,,,,,,,but I'll meet you anyway!!
bob
Ah, so that's where those eBay sellers got their 1846-CC Dollars!!!!
The Mint was completed prior to 1870. The number one press was up and running. The minor machinery, like planchet rolling, upsetting etc was all up and running. They even tested the press with the necessary pressure needed to mint dollars and it worked. A lot has been written but a lot has been left to be written about.
Personnel was the biggest problem. The coiner was one of the last to be approved and hired (all hiring of employees had to be approved prior to their employment). With the addition of the coiner minting could certainly have begun with those 1869 dies.
Just find one and the rest of the story can be told.
Hmmmmmm, not legal to own I would suspect as he was never authorized to release them. Coins if struck would have been sent back for examination before the go ahead could have been issued. No record of that happening that I'm able to find here in Nevada. Perhaps someone in the east can examine the communications between the Mint and the east for that answer? On my bucket list to do.
bob
I couldn't find anything in the book that says when the coin press was delivered. Fair question tho for the museum curator or Rusty.
Any guesses?? Cheers, RickO
On December 13, 1869 supervising architect A. B. Mullet reported to the U. S. Treasury Department that "the mint building was constructed satisfactorily. At the end of 1869 the building stood completed but still inoperative."
Prior to 1870 Curry ran the press to make napkin rings for himself. (that I do not know how it was done).
The equipment for coining had been sent by ship (the steamship Colorado) and Curry picked up the equipment in San Francisco in the early 1869. Most of the year was used in placement and fine tuning of the equipment. The last part of constructing was for the chimney tower that were made from 25,000 bricks that John Q. Adams, the brick maker in nearby Genoa, furnished. (I wonder if he is any relation to Pres Adams).
Besides the coiner, the Mint also needed to hire an assayer, melter and refiner. According to Henry Linderman (U.S. Mint Director). this was all accomplished during the summer/fall of 1869.
The corner stone has about 25 items in it and there are six coins from what research I could find. Ground was broken for the Mint on July 18, 1866. Corner stone was laid on Sept 24, 1866. There was a big shindig to commemorate it. Parade, 200 Masons, bands, etc and all paid for by Curry. His annual salary was $2,000 by the way. Curry communicated weekly with the U.S. Mint director. Always pleading for funds and he was paying everything out of his own pocket only to be reimbursed later. Good thing he had deep pockets. At one time the Gov't owned him $12k.
Hope this helps.
bob
Absolutely coins were struck dated 1869 in Carson. Unfortunately none were saved.
Abe Curry received dies dated 1869 in November (If I remember correctly). His machinery was ready and had been tried and tested. Knowing what I do of Abe I would bet my hat that he struck coins...
It was decided that none should be struck and the die for 1869 to be returned. It was replaced with the die of 1870. It had been determined that there was not enough time left in the month plus, for enough coins to be struck to meet the demand that was anticipated.
Abe would have been like a kid in a Candy store when the dies of 1869 arrived. Why he would not have struck dollars would be unexplained. He had the dies and the go ahead. But, none have been seen as of yet.
Keep your eyes peeled for that elusive dollar that is probably out there but in a family's hold all these years.
There are several people that I would expect to have received one. The two editors of the local papers among others come to immediate mind. Perhaps one of the reporters, like Alf Doten? Governor Blasdel? Maybe still in his family today.
bob
If you push a little hard, Mr. Carr will make one for you.
I would totally buy an 1869CC dollar from DCARR. I bet it would look amazing.
Struck over what? An 1870-S dollar?
So if the cornerstone was put down in 1866, and there are six coins in it, let me propose a wild and completely baseless theory... could it contain six of the following mythical items, struck in San Francisco with a "CC" tail die?
1866-CC Seated Dime
1866-CC Seated Quarter
1866-CC Seated Half
1866-CC Seated Dollar
1866-CC Half Eagle
1866-CC Eagle
1866-CC Double Eagle
That's seven coins of each denomination struck in Carson City, minus the Trade Dollar and 20-cent piece, which did not exist yet. Now THAT would make a nice mint set if someone busted it out!!!
I guess if six special coins were actually minted, they could also be commemoratives of some sort, or perhaps a partial 1866 proof set from Philadelphia. One can always fantasize about what might be in there....
There is no mention as to what the coins are (were?)
bob
Abe died broke, but with no debts, on October 19, 1873. He died of a stroke suffered a few days earlier(after having a good stiff drink with a close friend). He is buried in Carson City at Lone Mountain Cemetery. Mary did not have enough money for a headstone and his grave finally got it my Senior year of HS, in 1964.
He was a grand visionary having started Carson City, by purchasing the ranch it is located on, and developing it from nothing to the State Capital of Nevada.
He donated and built the Capital building (4 acres in the center of town, south of the Mint). He also built the V & T railroad complex including the locomotive turnstiles inside a building that had an interior span of 63' x 160'. He held big parties inside that building. He put boards over the tracks and made a dance floor almost as big as the interior. He built the first firehouse and it's still there.
He also built, along with my Great Grandfather, many business buildings. One the Rinckel block is still housing businesses today.
He built the Warm Springs Hotel.
etc etc
Good man.
bob
AUandAG deserves serious respect for his insight on this matter.
When several tools in a process sequence were ready, then a mini-run would be done to see how the process worked for several steps.
As it got closer, the mini-runs got longer, and even sending partially run material to another factory to cover gaps of tools not ready, and then back (and forth) until a finished product was made.
The proto's, mini=runs, test samples, were poked, prodded, cut, and torn apart, then typically trashed.
From a mint's perspective, since everything was easily recoverable into raw material, I would bet dollars to doughnuts, that patterns, tests, etc. existed by the score, but went back to proverbial pot.
It could have even been using defaced dies or "bogus" mint mark dies to ensure nothing "escaped". Rather than a CC dollar, how about one made in Carson City with TEST for a mint mark ?
I have been involved in the start up of 7 factories. We generated tons of junk, as various tools in the process were tested and tweaked.
When several tools in a process sequence were ready, then a mini-run would be done to see how the process worked for several steps.
As it got closer, the mini-runs got longer, and even sending partially run material to another factory to cover gaps of tools not ready, and then back (and forth) until a finished product was made.
The proto's, mini=runs, test samples, were poked, prodded, cut, and torn apart, then typically trashed.
From a mint's perspective, since everything was easily recoverable into raw material, I would bet dollars to doughnuts, that patterns, tests, etc. existed by the score, but went back to proverbial pot.
It could have even been using defaced dies or "bogus" mint mark dies to ensure nothing "escaped". Rather than a CC dollar, how about one made in Carson City with TEST for a mint mark ?
OH BOY, now we have something else to look for. And yes, Abe Curry would have been chomp'n at the bit with all the new toys and 4+ years in the making. If he made those napkin rings for all the grandkids I'm sure he played with it for himself....
bob
If you push a little hard, Mr. Carr will make one for you.
Even before I opened this thread, I expected to see my name somewhere in it
Willie Cowan designed the steps that lead into the Mint from Carson St. He was twelve at the time of the planning. He was also Abe and Mary's Grandson.
Abe died broke, but with no debts, on October 19, 1873. He died of a stroke suffered a few days earlier(after having a good stiff drink with a close friend). He is buried in Carson City at Lone Mountain Cemetery. Mary did not have enough money for a headstone and his grave finally got it my Senior year of HS, in 1964.
He was a grand visionary having started Carson City, by purchasing the ranch it is located on, and developing it from nothing to the State Capital of Nevada.
He donated and built the Capital building (4 acres in the center of town, south of the Mint). He also built the V & T railroad complex including the locomotive turnstiles inside a building that had an interior span of 63' x 160'. He held big parties inside that building. He put boards over the tracks and made a dance floor almost as big as the interior. He built the first firehouse and it's still there.
He also built, along with my Great Grandfather, many business buildings. One the Rinckel block is still housing businesses today.
He built the Warm Springs Hotel.
etc etc
Good man.
bob
Back in 2008 I proposed this medal to be issued by the Carson City Collectors Club of America. But nothing ever happened with it, except for a few sample strikes:
Morgans were struck from the '69 dies....whether they went to the melting pot or exist in
some attic trunk somewhere, they no doubt were made....Cheers, RickO
Willie Cowan designed the steps that lead into the Mint from Carson St. He was twelve at the time of the planning. He was also Abe and Mary's Grandson.
Abe died broke, but with no debts, on October 19, 1873. He died of a stroke suffered a few days earlier(after having a good stiff drink with a close friend). He is buried in Carson City at Lone Mountain Cemetery. Mary did not have enough money for a headstone and his grave finally got it my Senior year of HS, in 1964.
He was a grand visionary having started Carson City, by purchasing the ranch it is located on, and developing it from nothing to the State Capital of Nevada.
He donated and built the Capital building (4 acres in the center of town, south of the Mint). He also built the V & T railroad complex including the locomotive turnstiles inside a building that had an interior span of 63' x 160'. He held big parties inside that building. He put boards over the tracks and made a dance floor almost as big as the interior. He built the first firehouse and it's still there.
He also built, along with my Great Grandfather, many business buildings. One the Rinckel block is still housing businesses today.
He built the Warm Springs Hotel.
etc etc
Good man.
bob
Back in 2008 I proposed this medal to be issued by the Carson City Collectors Club of America. But nothing ever happened with it, except for a few sample strikes:
Nice piece. What's the significance of 888 silver?
A trick of the light - it says "999".
Great thread....lots of information (thanks AuandAg).... I have to believe that some CC
Morgans were struck from the '69 dies....whether they went to the melting pot or exist in
some attic trunk somewhere, they no doubt were made....Cheers, RickO
It makes you think if they are still out there somewhere.
The big question is if there are 1869cc coins out there is it
1) Sitting around and the current owner or owners are NOT aware of what they have?
2) The current owner and owners DO know what they have but just like to keep it secret?
Great thread....lots of information (thanks AuandAg).... I have to believe that some CC
Morgans were struck from the '69 dies....whether they went to the melting pot or exist in
some attic trunk somewhere, they no doubt were made....Cheers, RickO
It makes you think if they are still out there somewhere.
The big question is if there are 1869cc coins out there is it
1) Sitting around and the current owner or owners are NOT aware of what they have?
2) The current owner and owners DO know what they have but just like to keep it secret?
This will not be known until one is located....My 1870cc dollar which Abe presented to my Great Grandparents was "family known" but nobody else knew of it unless they had read about it in a 1955 Reno newspaper article that included that info.
bob