19th Century Proof Sets

MidLifeCrisis

Were they issued by the mint, as proof sets are today?



Or were those that are offered for sale nowadays put together by collectors?



How much would the cheapest intact set cost (ballpark)?



I have this vague memory of seeing a 19th Century proof set in a coin magazine when I was a kid, maybe as part of the sale of the Jerry Buss Collection. I wonder if that's a real memory.

keyman64

Complete sets were sold by the mint for a premium over face. A couple of intact sets have been auctioned in the last 10 years or so if I recall...or maybe my memory is fuzzy? Hmmmm, maybe I am thinking of the intact aluminum set?



I am sure other members will be able to provide better info.

DollarAfterDollar

I saw an intact set (with very similar toning on every coin) sell at auction about 2 years ago. I don't remember the sales price but I remember it required a very fat wallet.

davewesen

Sometimes they were given in special boxes as diplomatic gifts to leaders of foreign governments.

TopographicOceans

That's a good question.
I don't even know how single proof coins were packaged at the mint?

sparky64

Here's some good info on the topic.



19th century proof info

ricko

Thanks for the information sparky64... Cheers, RickO

roadrunner

I purchased an original 1900 (19th century) proof set around 10 years ago. They ordered the standard 5 pieces set + 2 additional minor sets (hence 3 cents and 3 nickels total). The package was shipped in a small paper holder with the coins individually wrapped in thick paper. The package was hand addressed from the US mint....REG mail I believe. It came with a copy of the mint's pricing. As I recall it was approx $3.50-$3.75 for a 5 coin standard set. The gold proofs were not all that much over face value (10-20%). I wrote about this in detail in a previous CU forum thread when I first got the set.

keyman64

Originally posted by: roadrunner

I purchased an original 1900 (19th century) proof set around 10 years ago. They ordered the standard 5 pieces set + 2 additional minor sets (hence 3 cents and 3 nickels total). The package was shipped in a small paper holder with the coins individually wrapped in thick paper. The package was hand addressed from the US mint....REG mail I believe. It came with a copy of the mint's pricing. As I recall it was approx $3.50-$3.75 for a 5 coin standard set. The gold proofs were not all that much over face value (10-20%). I wrote about this in detail in a previous CU forum thread when I first got the set.

You never posted any pics of the set or documentation.

From another thread it said you sold it. Any pics of the stuff?

MidLifeCrisis

Thanks everyone for the information and the links!

keets

I wonder if anyone back then thought it was over-priced Modern crap.

TopographicOceans

Originally posted by: keets
I wonder if anyone back then thought it was over-priced Modern crap.

BillJones

From what I've read, Proof sets from that era were sold in three parts, the minor coins (cent and nickel + the Nickel Three Cent if there was one), the silver coins and the gold coins. One of the interesting statistics is the look at the high mintages for the 1909 Proof Liberty Nickel and the 1913 Matte Proof cent. Those mintages were high because the Lincoln Cent in 1909 propted collectors to order more minor sets, and the Buffalo nickels did the same in 1913. You could not order one cent or one nickel. You had to buy both coins.

rhedden

Where exactly were my great grandparents when the mint was selling proof gold for 10-20% over face?

Oh yeah, working in a coal mine for pennies a day. Forgot about that.

Analyst

I have a wealth of information on the topic, which I cannot organize right now. Please consider a few rapidly composed points.



1) Denga has extensively researched U.S. Mint archives in regard to Proof sets. I will inform him of this thread. Denga has discussed the subject matter in Numismatic News and in other Krause Publications..



2) There is information in Breen's book of 1977, which has been re-published here on pcgs.com!



3) In the early 1990s, Eric Streiner distributed an amazing string of original Proof sets (no gold). I do not remember the exact dates, from around 1860 to 1915 or 1916. These were presumably in the collection of John Story Jenks, which one of the Chapmans auctioned in 1921 or so. Streiner sold many of the early sets to Jay Parrino. I thank Jay for allowing me to carefully examine them. Eric sold many of the later sets to M. K. Ruben, who wholesaled them. Scott Travers sold many of the best coins to his clients, including several that were graded 68 or 69 ATS. Some of the "Jenks" proof coins from the 1870s and 1880s, perhaps including complete sets, were auctioned by Superior in August 1992. MidLifeCrisis may wish to get a copy of that catalogue.



4) Within the last six years, a run of original pre-1917 sets surfaced and was auctioned by a firm in New Hampshire. I could not attend that event, and I do not remember if it contained pre-1900 sets. I have since seen many of the coins. The sets were truly original.



5). In the mid 1990s, Stack's auctioned a run of original late 19th century and early 20th century sets. Although I viewed the coins, I do not remember the details at the moment. The name of the consignment started with Z. Original Philadelphia Mint Wrappers were included in at least one sale of Z's consignment and in other sales. These are not easy to describe.



6) The Pittman Collection had a few complete (including gold) Proof sets from the 1840s. The extent of originality varied. In one case, Saul Teichman found that the gold had been separated from the silver for decades and then later re-united! Should I write an article about the Pittman Proof sets from the 1840s? I was so enamored by them that Akers wondered if I was "feeling okay"?



insightful10@gmail.com

MidLifeCrisis

Thanks Analyst!

rhedden

Good information! Now if only someone can find pics of all these great sets and upload them.... love those early proofs when they're original.

valente151

Originally posted by: Analyst
4) Within the last six years, a run of original pre-1917 sets surfaced and was auctioned by a firm in New Hampshire. I could not attend that event, and I do not remember if it contained pre-1900 sets. I have since seen many of the coins. The sets were truly original.

I remember these coins and still have the catalog, though I was still an ultra YN in High School when they were auctioned. I did see many of the coins as they were showcased at a local show before the auction though. Even before I had a trained eye, I thought this run of coins was cool. There were quite a few 1880s sets if I recall correctly. I will be home from college next week, if someone is interested and reminds me I'll try to find the auction catalog.

Edited to add: It was Centennial Auctions. I found they still have the sale on their site.

hchcoin

Originally posted by: keets
I wonder if anyone back then thought it was over-priced Modern crap.

That's funny!

MrEureka

This is the mailer for a 1914 Proof Set. Too bad is has seen some abuse over the years.

Treashunt

Originally posted by: keets
I wonder if anyone back then thought it was over-priced Modern crap.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: keyman64

Originally posted by: roadrunner

I purchased an original 1900 (19th century) proof set around 10 years ago. They ordered the standard 5 pieces set + 2 additional minor sets (hence 3 cents and 3 nickels total). The package was shipped in a small paper holder with the coins individually wrapped in thick paper. The package was hand addressed from the US mint....REG mail I believe. It came with a copy of the mint's pricing. As I recall it was approx $3.50-$3.75 for a 5 coin standard set. The gold proofs were not all that much over face value (10-20%). I wrote about this in detail in a previous CU forum thread when I first got the set.

You never posted any pics of the set or documentation.

From another thread it said you sold it. Any pics of the stuff?

Thanks for digging that old thread up Keyman64...showing all the pricing information from 1900. $2.50 for the standard 5 pc proof set, the memory sure does fade. All the coins were graded NGC 65/66 though PCGS might have graded some a pt less. It was a very deeply toned set. Most around here would not be able to stand the very deep purple/blue on the dime/quarter and half. Any more time in those wrappers and they might have turned "ED black." The dollar was a mottled brown and silver, not all that attractive. I do wish I had taken photos of the 3 cents.



What was amazing was that the 3 PF66 RB Indian cents were 75-85% red, borderline monster toners in magenta, violet, fiery red. They made the set. More than likely after I sold it, someone probably separated the extra coins to profit individually from them....and still be left with a fully original 5 pc set intact. Because the silver coins were so deeply toned, the sum of the parts (and docs) was really worth way more than the individual coins. That set will surface again someday and it won't be hard to identify it. I recall showing it to Colonel Jessup at the White Plains that year. He felt that despite the deep toning, it was a presentable set and still more than desirable. In today's much less tolerant world of heavy toning, I'm not so sure it would command the same respect.