Anyone know Mark Yaffe from Tampa?

keyman64

http://www.tbo.com/news/politi...ced-for-fraud-20151204

RichieURich

"Great guy"???



Sorry, but someone that commits fraud in excess of $3 million doesn't meet my definition of a "great guy".



And if the quote from Heritage is accurate, "the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year.", that doesn't reflect very well on Heritage.



EDIT of 12/7/15: I have been informed (below) that the statement from Heritage was completely inaccurate. Therefore, the paragraph above is now irrelevant.

ShadyDave

"Loper also said Yaffe had set up a $7 million trust fund for his family in November 2012, well after the bankruptcy."






'Merica

keyman64

I guess he is a great guy unless he is trying to rip off a bank for $3Mil.

pennyannie

Unbelievable, great guy, just don't leave anything of value laying around.



20 months for 3 million, I would do 200 days for a million. Where do I sign up. I get a vacation and my wife gets a break



Surprised the irs is not after him also.

pennyannie

Unbelievable, great guy, just don't leave anything of value laying around.



20 months for 3 million, I would do 200 days for a million. Where do I sign up. I get a vacation and my wife gets a break



Surprised the irs is not after him also.

MrEureka

Originally posted by: RichieURich
And if the quote from Heritage is accurate, "the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year.", that doesn't reflect very well on Heritage.

I presume that that comment was in the context of establishing that sending him to prison would not be in the best interest of his creditors, which is true. Can't fault Heritage for that.

RichieURich

Originally posted by: MrEureka

Originally posted by: RichieURich

And if the quote from Heritage is accurate, "the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year.", that doesn't reflect very well on Heritage.

I presume that that comment was in the context of establishing that sending him to prison would not be in the best interest of his creditors, which is true. Can't fault Heritage for that.

Oh, I might have misread the intent of the quote. I thought it indicated that Heritage would hire him now, which I don't think would be a good idea for several reasons.

RYK

Originally posted by: RichieURich

"Great guy"???



Sorry, but someone that commits fraud in excess of $3 million doesn't meet my definition of a "great guy".



...

I agree. If you steal someone else's money (not exactly what happened here) and take credit for being charitable with it, does it make you a "great guy"?

RichieURich

Originally posted by: RYK

Originally posted by: RichieURich

"Great guy"???



Sorry, but someone that commits fraud in excess of $3 million doesn't meet my definition of a "great guy".



...

I agree. If you steal someone else's money (not exactly what happened here) and take credit for being charitable with it, does it make you a "great guy"?

It's real easy to be charitable with someone else's money!

Walkerguy21D

I agree. If you steal someone else's money (not exactly what happened here) and take credit for being charitable with it, does it make you a "great guy"?

Depends on how you view Robin Hood, I suppose

Zoins

He's trying to make good and has paid back $300,104 of the $3m so far. Looks like he's protected his family with the $7m trust fund.

Zoins

Originally posted by: Walkerguy21D

I agree. If you steal someone else's money (not exactly what happened here) and take credit for being charitable with it, does it make you a "great guy"?

Depends on how you view Robin Hood, I suppose

It doesn't appear that he's distributed any of his money as his good deeds appear to be more to do with donating his time as he "raised money for autistic children and assisted living homes. He mentored homeless teenagers, even taking them into his home for months so they could get on their feet and apply themselves in school with newfound diligence."


Also, if this comes back to individual depositors or tax payers paying more, it would appear to be a wealth transfer from individuals to his family.

shorecoll

Seems like a relative piker...Michael Milken stole $4B, went to prison for 2 years and paid a $2B fine. I'd rather have that deal.

ricko

A crook is a crook is a crook..... lock him up. Damn thieves get away with too much.

No mercy.... Cheers, RickO

Zoins

Originally posted by: MrEureka

Originally posted by: RichieURich

And if the quote from Heritage is accurate, "the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year.", that doesn't reflect very well on Heritage.

I presume that that comment was in the context of establishing that sending him to prison would not be in the best interest of his creditors, which is true. Can't fault Heritage for that.

It may be better for him to just take the $3m out of the $7m trust fund, but the fund may be designed to prevent that from happening. If that's the case, it seems to be working.

DennisH

Originally posted by: ricko
A crook is a crook is a crook..... lock him up. Damn thieves get away with too much.
No mercy.... Cheers, RickO

+1

Mark

As far as him taking homeless teenagers into his house, check out the size of Mr. Yaffe's house. He may never have seen any of the teens he housed...

Broadstruck

Locking him up for 20 months making license plates probably won't offer much toward his repayment to the bank

Broadstruck

Originally posted by: Mark

As far as him taking homeless teenagers into his house, check out the size of Mr. Yaffe's house. He may never have seen any of the teens he housed...

I know him based on his house as his legal issues have been posted here a few times over the years...



He needed a Porsche just to get from his kitchen to living room.

Rampage

Originally posted by: Mark
As far as him taking homeless teenagers into his house, check out the size of Mr. Yaffe's house. He may never have seen any of the teens he housed...

Nice house, but seems like greed got the best of him.

djdilliodon

I wonder if he formed the business as an LLC if he would of went to jail?

roadrunner

As part of National Gold Exchange in the 1990's I remember them doing very well on their Eliasberg collection purchases. Sharp group. But, now they follow fellow big time coin dealers Tom Noe, Martin Haber, and others to jail.

Coinosaurus

Is this any different than running up one's credit cards when they know they are going to be declaring bankruptcy soon?

pennyannie

Originally posted by: FadeToBlack

Originally posted by: pennyannie
Unbelievable, great guy, just don't leave anything of value laying around.

20 months for 3 million, I would do 200 days for a million. Where do I sign up. I get a vacation and my wife gets a break

Surprised the irs is not after him also.

Did you miss the part where he has to pay restitution on that?

I'd do a year in county prison for $150k no problem. Federal? Eh, I'd need at least $250k. I'm a bargain.

I did not miss the restitution part, he made some payments before he was sentenced to make himself look better to everyone, he will Never pay it back in full. No trust is 100% unbreakable. He started it he can change it.

When some kids broke into a house of mine they were ordered to pay restitution. I got a 500 dollar check for a few of them and never another dime after that.

TwoSides2aCoin

Banker should have known it takes 2 million to make a million. In this economy, of course it's going to take 3.

golden

Originally posted by: ricko
A crook is a crook is a crook..... lock him up. Damn thieves get away with too much.
No mercy.... Cheers, RickO

PTVETTER

I know that this comment in NOT correct, but consider this:



He defrauded a bank. Who remembers all the big bank CEO's getting big bonuses after making questionable actions.



Don't remember any of those going to jail.



I consider Mark a friend and don't care who knows.

Zoins

20 months isn't so bad and he's lucky it's a lot less than the 37-40 months recommended in the pre-sentencing report. There's still a lot of life to live afterwards.


His term is much shorter than other US prison sentences for bank fraud. He's also a lot better off than those defrauding banks in China and Iran who have received the death sentence and have been executed.


Hopefully he can stay positive and come out of this a better person.

MrEureka

I don't know all of the specifics of this case, but I think it's worth pointing out that anyone that lies to his bank about his financial situation for the purpose of getting a loan has committed bank fraud. And while there may be no excuse, millions of people do it with perfectly good intentions.

pennyannie

Originally posted by: MrEureka
I don't know all of the specifics of this case, but I think it's worth pointing out that anyone that lies to his bank about his financial situation for the purpose of getting a loan has committed bank fraud. And while there may be no excuse, millions of people do it with perfectly good intentions.

very true

SullivanNumismatics

Although the bank may never collect it's money which Mark Yaffe stole from them, his jail time will serve as a "example" to others and prevent fraud in the future. Hopefully he'll come out of jail a "changed man."

unclebob

Is high end numismatics so devoid of talent, that Heritage would hire and pay a convicted felon upwards of $500K annually? I should expect more but I guess whether it's a bank or client... as long as its other people money.

MrHalfDime

Originally posted by: RichieURich
"Great guy"???

Sorry, but someone that commits fraud in excess of $3 million doesn't meet my definition of a "great guy".

And if the quote from Heritage is accurate, "the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year.", that doesn't reflect very well on Heritage.

Extremely well put. Nuff said.

Zoins

My speculation is that the creation of the $7m trust after the bankruptcy filing was a big issue since this money could have been used to restore creditors. It would have looked better if this was created before the bankruptcy filing. He may have been able to get the 1 year of house arrest and 3 years of probation (or even get the suit dismissed) if he was able to repay the bank. Options for this include dissolving the $7m trust or finding another lender. Perhaps Heritage, the organizations he raised funds for, or others would be willing to provide such a loan given his expertise and past good works.


One issue with house arrest or probation without restitution is it could look like he took $3m from the bank, put it in a $7m trust, and then spends 4 years living off of the bank's $3m in the trust which he keeps forever. If it was okay to do that, I imagine many people would start doing that and it could end commercial lending as we know it.

TwoSides2aCoin

And we raised the debt ceiling. Going on twenty trillion in the hole . What a slap in the face of (to) all Americans.

Zoins

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

And we raised the debt ceiling. Going on twenty trillion in the hole . What a slap in the face of (to) all Americans.

For that, you can look at the Americans who elected those (primarily Democrat) Congressmen. Are you saying certain American voters are slapping the face of all Americans?


There are structural changes happening in the US economy (the effects of which are evident in our hobby) and some more fundamental changes may be needed to change course.

TwoSides2aCoin

Look at coins this way… You're damned if you do (and if you don't look at them ), you're damned if you don't.

Just say "Noe" to coins. Who brought in the politics ? I brought up economics of the banking system.

JBN

Originally posted by: FadeToBlack

Originally posted by: Zoins

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
And we raised the debt ceiling. Going on twenty trillion in the hole . What a slap in the face of (to) all Americans.

For that, you can look at the Americans who elected those (primarily Democrat) Congressmen. Are you saying certain American voters are slapping the face of all Americans?
There are structural changes happening in the US economy (the effects of which are evident in our hobby) and some more fundamental changes may be needed to change course.

You're kidding right? The current debt situation is mostly the result of Reaganomics and the Iraqi war, which was spearheaded by a Republican president under false pretenses, may I remind you.

However, regardless of which party may carry the bulk of the blame, both parties are a bunch of idiots who do nothing more than continue to soldier on towards financial ruin, with callous disregard to the lives of average Americans. They're supposed to keep one another in check, which never happens, and I don't see why anybody trusts either party at this point.

It is wonderful to see more Americans (in my estimation - skewed toward younger people) aware that neither major party represents or cares one whit about the average American. The phrase I like to use - "I'm too rich for Democrats to care about, too poor for Republicans to notice." You see it in the early part of the 2016 election - outsider candidates in both parties with more 'traction' than pundits can fathom. Heck, if a lot of the youth in the country get out and vote, you could see a President Sanders.

jerseycat101

Since when do we allow posts and/or comments of obvious political nature on these boards? Didn't someone get banned recently for this?

TwoSides2aCoin

Originally posted by: Zoins

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

And we raised the debt ceiling. Going on twenty trillion in the hole . What a slap in the face of (to) all Americans.

For that, you can look at the Americans who elected those (primarily Democrat) Congressmen. Are you saying certain American voters are slapping the face of all Americans?


There are structural changes happening in the US economy (the effects of which are evident in our hobby) and some more fundamental changes may be needed to change course.

I think jail time costs taxpayers' more money than the bank lost. The judicial system is the one slapping the people of Florida who pay taxes. It's not so much a function of the Federal government's issue as it is their involvement in the process.

keyman64

Last I heard, it costs taxpayers about $40k per year for each prisoner. I could be wrong though.

roadrunner

Some of the biggest and most "respected" dealers today took people for lots of money in the 1970's and 1980's....it doesn't make them saints today regardless of their current circumstances, awards, and titles. I should know as they tried to take me numerous times on cleaned and over-graded junk back in those days. The FTC cleaned house a bit in the 1986-1992 period but some of the biggest guys got away clean. Hey, just don't defraud a bank and you should be fine.

swhuck

The statement attributed to Heritage in a previous post was completely inaccurate.

ShadyDave

Originally posted by: swhuck
The statement attributed to Heritage in a previous post was completely inaccurate.

"Lee Sanders, who handles the gold department at Heritage Galleries in Dallas, said the company would hire Yaffe if he was available and pay him between $250,000 and $500,000 a year." You might want to talk to Lee Sanders and the author of the article then...

swhuck

I did ask Lee Sanders, and he answered as follows:



"In the sentencing hearing, I testified that someone might hire Mark in $250-500k range, but as for our company (Heritage) I would not be the one to make that decision, it would be management. The Tampa Tribune reported my testimony inaccurately."

epcjimi1

"Yaffe is to report to prison on Jan. 8."



Yaffe gets to enjoy the holidays before showing up for incarceration, whether county club or slamming steel door.



Judge Judy would have him behind bars immediately after sentence.

mrearlygold

Wow it's been years now is Mark a free man?

Kkathyl

So if your good to others with the banks money you get lighter sentence. But if he stole from old and Autistic it would of been Bad guy label. I think theft is theft no matter what.