1869 2C piece -- crack or send in for cross, your thoughts?

mercurydimeguy

Picked up this piece of copper in an older NGC 64BN slab with CAC.





As you can see, the slab is terrible. This is about the best photo I could muster and that's after 10 minutes of PlastX scrubbing.






Biggest question is about the tiny piece of Verdigris on the obverse. It looks like it's been there forever (and the slab is old) so I am thinking it was probably slabbed that way by NGC. I know PCGS will slab coins like this as well, but do you think that little piece is a show-stopper at PCGS if I crack it out and send in raw? Should I send in for cross in the really terrible slab?






Should I crack it and try to remove the piece of Verdigris with a toothpick and then send to PCGS (the little pice looks like it's just sitting there), or if I move it will be it corroded or spotted underneath? The tiny piece is not even noticeable unless you magnify the coin a lot and hold it it at the right angle so it doesn't bother me at all, but I was interested in the opinions of some here.






By the way, if you don't like the coin at all, no hard feeling/ego, all good. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (and the pictures are kind of brutal, wish I could shoot it raw).






Thanks in advance for your feedback!

erwindoc

I wouldn't mess with it, but that is just me. I wouldn't crack it if you decide to cross. Id try harder on buffing the slab if the scuffs still bother you. Lots of info here on getting those out as Im sure you know.

coinlieutenant

Lovely coin. If you want in pcgs plastic, cross it. If it doesn't work, you still have the cool ngc slab

USMarine6

Your photos make it look more like a RB more than a BN. Are your hoping for a cross at grade or some sort of designation upgrade?

commoncents05

I give up, where is the verdigris?



-Paul

mercurydimeguy

Originally posted by: commoncents05
I give up, where is the verdigris?

-Paul

It's a tiny spot under the date.





Regarding the color, the coin def has some remnant red but I'm fine BN designation. I'm actually down with it in a PC64 holder I just don't want to pay 2-3 grading fees if I don't have to. That's why I was asking about cracking...





It actually matches the color/look of my 1869 IHC that's why I'm interested in it for my set.

roadrunner

Looks RB. There's also the tiny spot in the horiz shield lines and something else on the reverse "N." Unless you can remove them all successfully I wouldn't bother.



My experience with NGC 2c pieces in 64-65 BN/RB grades is that NGC was significantly easier on them than PCGS. Over the years, I cracked out a lot of PCGS 64's shooting for NGC 65's....one of the highest % type coin upgrade plays out there. You rarely have to worry about AT or cleaned surfaces that can get by you.



I don't think I'd be comfortable messing with this spotted one. It could be net graded to BN because of the spotting. Looks 64+ or even 65 but the spot kills it. Is there even a decent spread between 64 BN and RB? I don't see a lot of upside here, and the potential to end up with a BB along the way. JA likes it as it....we probably should too.

lordmarcovan

Personally, I'd crack it and gently use a bamboo skewer or toothpick to attempt to remove that spot below the date before resubmitting it on this side of the street. That looks like just it could just be plain old dirt instead of any kind of active corrosion/verdigris. Might come right off, who knows?



It's a good looking coin and I'd say it has a fair chance of going same grade at PCGS, though of course I could be wrong about that.

TopographicOceans

Even though I prefer PCGS slabs and have spent a lot of money crossing my collection over, I'd keep this in it's current home.
Or crack it out and enjoy it in an album if you have a type set.

Tomthemailcarrier

I wouldn't mess with the coin.....reminds me of the times that I have messed a little too much with caulking....with an attempt to get the caulk perfect I made it worse. If the holder bothers you maybe a reholder is in order?

ColonelJessup

Don't crack it. The spot at 6 o'clock will always hold it back. Worse, if the spot comes off, you'll have a shiny divot (even more distracting) where the spot used to be.

mercurydimeguy

Great advice, thank you all!

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: ColonelJessup

Don't crack it. The spot at 6 o'clock will always hold it back. Worse, if the spot comes off, you'll have a shiny divot (even more distracting) where the spot used to be.

Yes, that's a potential issue I forgot to consider when discussing spot removal via toothpick or bamboo skewer. Even if it did come off (and who's to say it would), you'd have a shiny or at least lighter-colored void in the toning there.

ricko

That spot does not appear to be verdigris.... likely dirt of some type...however, removal

will almost undoubtedly leave a spot that is even more ugly.... I would leave the coin

as is.... Having a CAC sticker now should be enough to support the coin in this condition. Let us know what your decision/results are... Cheers, RickO

Christos

If you decide to mess with it I would soak in oil and make sure that the toothpick is well saturated also so the wood fibers become soft. This will reduce the chance of any surface damage. If the coin needs to be PCGS for your set I would cross in the holder after giving it a better buffing but would not crack it. The coin is very nice by the way.

The holder can be addressed by going to the auto parts store and picking up the mothers headlight repair kit. It has attachments for a drill and different grade compounds to use that will allow you to more easily buff the holder to perfection. I started using this process last year after fixing some salt and weather damaged headlights on a car. It works really good and you don't get tired hand rubbing every scratched slab.

grote15

I would not crack it~I think MS63BN would be the PCGS grade. Not enough red for RB designation and surfaces and spot at 6 o'clock likely keeps it out of a MS64 holder. Are surfaces flat, or is there any luster not being picked up in the scan? NGC usually grades 2c poieces 1 grade higher than PCGS, on average, in my experience. However, if that spot is just a piece of dirt, you might try to take it off with a wooden skewer, if you want to take a shot. If it comes off clean, you might get the 64BN grade.

UMCane

Your photos show a nice coin that IMHO is boaderline RB. It's always a crap-shoot crossing over to PCGS at grade, plus it needs to re-beaned. They have never been kind to me. What Grote says is true NGC grades higher and I'm a surprised they didn't give it an RB. Here's my "No Bean" PF64RB for color comparison.

If you do send it in. Expect a 63 BN from PCGS.

291fifth

Just leave it as is. I don't see any upside potential

mercurydimeguy

FYI, it crossed at grade (I didn't crack it). Grade just posted, MS64BN. Happy with that outcome

291fifth

I think you got lucky on that one.

mercurydimeguy

Phil did an amazing job imaging the raw coin, something I simply couldn't do through the scuffed up NGC holder. Thanks!

asheland

BillJones

Use some headlight polish on the slab to fix it. The stuff works wonders.

winky

Like everyone else I would leave it alone. It only takes one to not like it and you have wasted your money.