1852-O Gold Dollar - Not Genuine?

C0inCollect0r

Hi folks,

This 1852-O Gold Dollar looks "off" to me but I figured I'd ask here to make sure since I'm not very familiar with this series:

LindeDad

I'd have dought's about that one too as everything looks mushy, might of been ex-jewerley thou.

CaptHenway

Old well-known counterfeit.

telephoto1

Originally posted by: CaptHenway
Old well-known counterfeit.

Yep. The broken 8 is a key diagnostic as well as the inconsistently mushy stars obverse.

Zoins

Here is a 1852-O G1D photo from Phil for comparison. There are some clear differences.

Zoins

Originally posted by: telephoto1

Originally posted by: CaptHenway
Old well-known counterfeit.

Yep. The broken 8 is a key diagnostic as well as the inconsistently mushy stars obverse.

Is this collected as a classic counterfeit?

LanceNewmanOCC

Is this collected as a classic counterfeit?

doubtful it would be collected under that premise but a great educational piece.



some may keep these back for that purpose.



i will be keeping the images for educational purposes so ty for posting them.

.

ricko

Definitely not genuine.... is it an auction? Best report it.... Cheers, RickO

LindeDad

Knew there was a reason I only collect the slabbed ones.







My 1854

jwitten

Not even a decent fake. Yikes.

Zoins

Here is another one with a die crack:

csdot

The stars look like marshmallow flowers.

BillJones

Yea, that one is not good. It has a mushy strike and the "8" in the date does not match up with the real thing. It was probably made in Lebanon back in the 1970s. Here is my genuine example.

291fifth

The extensive counterfeiting of US gold coins in the 1970's and early 1980's was one of the reasons why third party grading and authentication became popular. Many of the low denomination gold counterfeits were apparently made by melting down US $20 gold coins. By doing this the gold composition would remain accurate. Money was made because the low denomination coins had much higher numismatic premiums attached than the $20s.

ambro51

If you bought it, I'd return it. If you own it, I'd learn from it. If you're selling it ... think twice. Having a coin (?)) like this is a part of learning how to collect gold dollars and to be reminded to look for the little giveaways of a counterfeit before you buy. Among other things you'll see are those little spikes coming in from the dentils near AMERICA. You never see these on a real coin but a lot of counterfeits have them somewhere. Remember seeing counterfeits is not like baseball 3 strikes you're out in coins any one singular counterfeit diagnostic tells all.

Zoins

Great examples LindeDad and Bill. Love the DOG look on the 1854



Why are the Lebanese coins not collected? For example, Machins Mills counterfeit half pennies are collected (and slabbed) but not others, e.g. Lebanese, Omega, Micro-O Morgans. What makes a counterfeit a legitimate collectible?

CaptHenway

Excellent question, but hard to answer. Machins were made as circulating coins, which they did. THe early Lebanese counterfiets from the 1950's and early 60's were made as bullion coins to evade certain legal restrictions. Then they started making numismatic counterfeits into the 70's and 80's because the premium was higher. Which enterprise do you reward by making them collectible?



I am working on an article that will address the issue of Lebanese counterfeits, but it won't be done for a while.

steveben

Originally posted by: Zoins
Here is another one with a die crack:

now, that's what i'm talking about!

kaz

Counterfeit gold dollars are very,very common, used to see them all the time on eBay. Haven't checked in a while, though.

291fifth

Counterfeits are, as stamp collectors would say, "album weeds". They are a plague on any hobby and should be shunned, not collected.

ambro51

No. We're NOT going to even START thinking of collecting these damn things

Zoins

One reason to think about slabbing them is that they are made of real US gold coins with the correct composition. It's kind of a shame to shun them all since they are real gold. It seems like they could be slabbed and traded for bullion value.

CaptHenway

Originally posted by: Zoins

One reason to think about slabbing them is that they are made of real US gold coins with the correct composition. It's kind of a shame to shun them all since they are real gold. It seems like they could be slabbed and traded for bullion value.

Better melted for the gold value minus the refining charge.