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I think I'm about done selling on eBay
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's no secret that eBay requires more and more of sellers to "protect" the buyers. Over the last year or so I have basically stopped selling most raw coins and now sell mostly certified coins, with 95% being PCGS (the remaining 5% NGC & ANACS). Prior to the past couple months, I averaged about 0.4% returns, or about 1 return for every 250 transactions. In the last couple of weeks my return rate has gone up to about 4%! This week I've had 2 buyers seeking returns for, "Doesn't match description or photos". When a buyer claims that excuse, the seller has to pay for return shipping! These were both PCGS graded coins with large clear pictures. I believe these buyers are buying coins to look for varieties or possible upgrades, or trying to flip them. When that doesn't work, they just claim "Doesn't match description or photos" and the buyer gets a free ride.
So rather than sell 250+/- coins a month, I'm just going to sell maybe 10-15 coins a month to keep a presence on eBay. I'll also make more use of my 1000+ name email list, and clean up my website to reflect more coins for sale. I'm also going to start doing 8-10 smaller coin shows a year.
End of rant.....
So rather than sell 250+/- coins a month, I'm just going to sell maybe 10-15 coins a month to keep a presence on eBay. I'll also make more use of my 1000+ name email list, and clean up my website to reflect more coins for sale. I'm also going to start doing 8-10 smaller coin shows a year.
End of rant.....
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
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Comments
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>SELL MORE STUFF ON THE BST!!!!! >>
That's an idea...
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>I empathize with you. I work for a dealer that carries 500 listings on a daily basis. The reasons for requesting returns are becoming more ludicrous than ever. eBay has gone way overboard in their attempt to transform the platform to favor big box corporations that sell thousands of widgets at a time. >>
I agree. They have done their very best to chase small time sellers away.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>SELL MORE STUFF ON THE BST!!!!! >>
Great idea if one wants to wholesale their inventory.
I never really had any real problems, but from what I've read on here lately, I have no desire to sell on there at all.
My YouTube Channel
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<< <i>SELL MORE STUFF ON THE BST!!!!! >>
Great idea if one wants to wholesale their inventory.
After all the eBay and PayPal fees it's frequently more profitable selling on the BST which is FREE. Also, a better clientele is usually found on the BST.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
All poor feedback was on coins priced $4.00 to $24.00
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<< <i>SELL MORE STUFF ON THE BST!!!!! >>
Great idea if one wants to wholesale their inventory.
After all the eBay and PayPal fees it's frequently more profitable selling on the BST which is FREE. Also, a better clientele is usually found on the BST.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>BTW, when did the sellers start having to pay return shipping fees? How do they do that? >>
If a buyer simply requests a return via eBay, the seller has several limited options to reply to the request. If a buyer either files a SNAD, or insists on the buyer paying return shipping, eBay will side with the buyer.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
As a seller, I've only had 1 return and the buyer paid for the return shipping and it was done via private messages and not through the Ebay system.
As a buyer, the only time I've used the "not as described" only once and that was when a seller sent me a PCGS coin with a different cert# than was in the auction and the seller refused to respond to my private messages to resolve it. Whenever I seller has sent me a wrong item, I've always resolved it via private messages with the seller and have never involved Ebay.
I did have one seller who sold me 5 raw Standing Liberty Quarters. The picture was poor and one of the mintmarks on a coin was misidentified as an S when it was really a D. It was about a $10 difference in value. The seller agreed to refund me $10 but couldn't figure out how. Through many private message exchanges in me giving instructions how to do it in PayPal, the seller finally responded that he's 85 years old and doesn't understand computers. I dropped it at that point, gave him positive feedback and moved on.
I do think Ebay isn't fair to sellers. The rule changes more and more favor buyers over sellers for any dispute. The potential for a bad buyer to purposely rip off a seller is very easy. Read the Ebay Discussion Area for Sellers and you'll see many common buyer scams being discussed without any way to police it. Ebay seems totally uninterested in stopping buyer fraud. It's too easy for a buyer to claim a package was empty, keep the item and file for a full refund.
I believe the changing rules that put more onus on sellers because (1) Ebay is trying to move to an Amazon type business model with mega-sellers to attract buyers to do their normal shopping on Ebay. They're not as much interested in the hobbiest/garage sale type business model that they started with. (2) Ultimately it's the buyers that drive the website. There need to be more buyers than sellers to drive demand and have products sell at higher prices.
Unfortunately the whole feedback system could be revamped to provide more balance between buyers and sellers. (1) They should separate out buyer feedback and seller feedback so that it's possible to distinguish between a user's feedback. (2) They should allow sellers to give neutral and negative feedback to buyers in certain situations such as non-payment for an item. (3) They should make public each buyer's return rate so that sellers can see when a buyer is well above the norm. (4). Allow sellers more latitude to cancel bids and cancel sales when a buyer with identifiable bad feedback is the high/winning bidder. The issue is that Ebay is deciding who you do business with and not you.
I'm disappointed whenever someone says they're going to stop selling on Ebay. I like the large marketplace of coins.
With these Ebay issues, what can/will fill the void? Ebay is provides a vital means of eCommerce. If not Ebay, something else should logically take its place.
<< <i>If a buyer simply requests a return via eBay, the seller has several limited options to reply to the request. If a buyer either files a SNAD, or insists on the buyer paying return shipping, eBay will side with the buyer. >>
I believe if a seller specifies "no returns" in his auctions, he leaves buyers with "not as described" as the only option for making a return. I have a coworker who sells stuff on ebay and specifies "no returns" in all his auctions. He gets a lot of "not as described" returns where he has to pay the return shipping. I've seen his auctions and don't see how a buyer can be having an issue with his descriptions. I tell him to change his auctions to accept returns with buyers paying return shipping. I think the issue with specifying "no returns" in an auction is if a buyer does want to return an item, they have no choice except file a "not as described" ticket.
It would be interesting if somehow the statistics are available whether people who do "no return" auctions have significantly more returns than people who do "buyer pays return" auctions.
<< <i>Unlike eBay, the BST forum is free and you'll be dealing with a higher class of collectors. >>
True, but the BST reaches a lot fewer collectors than eBay.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I often wonder how folks make money on eBay with the instant 10% haircut plus posting fees plus the lengthy return policies plus ....
But I do love surfing it and buying now and then.
We have one on the forum that must not be mentioned.
And we have CollectiveCoin.....
All we need is to get people to use those venues and use REAL prices. Some do not and it clutters the field.
I once sold some old pants on Ebay and had no payment for two weeks. It was a lady buyer and I looked up the house and the house is an old trailer no garage or yard which told me they barely scraped by. I assume they were for her husband so waited a week and she finally paid, I almost sent the pants to her for free.
Another buyer of a $1.50 coin, yes that is right $1.50, lied and said he never got the coin a couple months after I sent, gave me a negative. I look up his house and it is a million dollar house in Florida. I know he lied because of the way he handled it, sounding like I broke rules just to steal from him. I refunded his $1.50 no problem and moved on.
He is on my banned list and she isn't.
<< <i>You guys know you can look up the house of the person buying to see how they live right? >>
We need a "dirty tricks" forum.
I've done that, too.
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<< <i>Unlike eBay, the BST forum is free and you'll be dealing with a higher class of collectors. >>
True, but the BST reaches a lot fewer collectors than eBay. >>
BST is free so you have nothing to lose. If the BST don't work you can always use eBay and hope all you get a decent price after you pay all the associated fees and your winning bidder isn't a nut job that drives you crazy or rips you off.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>
<< <i>Unlike eBay, the BST forum is free and you'll be dealing with a higher class of collectors. >>
True, but the BST reaches a lot fewer collectors than eBay. >>
BST is free so you have nothing to lose. If the BST don't work you can always use eBay and hope all you get a decent price after you pay all the associated fees and your winning bidder isn't a nut job that drives you crazy or rips you off. >>
BST maybe free, but it does not offer any protection to either the buyer nor the seller. I'm sure those that have been "burned" will attest to that. In addition, if you want to "whole sale" your coins, BST may be your best choice. I'll stick with eBay and pay their 6% fee (does not include the 20% rebate for the FVF) and PayPal's 3% fee. BTW, I offer a no questions ask return on all coins, except for bullion related products and have had no returns in the last 12 month. I also peruse forums for hints of "dead beat buyers" and add them to my blocked buyers list, which now has almost 500 "not wanted" buyers, along in limiting my payment options to: PayPal only.
I do love being able to sell just about anything on ebay. Junk coins that I would be stuck with in a retail store, Ill toss up in 99c auctions and wave good bye.
Problem with the BST is most everyone wants to pay wholesale pricing for items but ask retail when selling. When Im selling a coin I'd rather sell it to a collector and make a profit then flip it to a dealer and hardly break even.
eBay has been evolving into a real poop hole for quite some time and have been driving the good sellers away.
The eBay auidence of buyers is also shrinking, and those that remain are cheaper then ever before.
Currently in US Coins there are:
All Listings(selected) (836,609)
Auction (125,510)
Buy It Now (724,453)
Of the 14% auction style listings, I think 90% of those have a starting bid of double what the coin is worth.
Buyers have the advantage if they can wade through the junk and find the needles in the haystack.
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<< <i>
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<< <i>Unlike eBay, the BST forum is free and you'll be dealing with a higher class of collectors. >>
True, but the BST reaches a lot fewer collectors than eBay. >>
BST is free so you have nothing to lose. If the BST don't work you can always use eBay and hope all you get a decent price after you pay all the associated fees and your winning bidder isn't a nut job that drives you crazy or rips you off. >>
BST maybe free, but it does not offer any protection to either the buyer nor the seller. I'm sure those that have been "burned" will attest to that. In addition, if you want to "whole sale" your coins, BST may be your best choice. I'll stick with eBay and pay their 6% fee (does not include the 20% rebate for the FVF) and PayPal's 3% fee. BTW, I offer a no questions ask return on all coins, except for bullion related products and have had no returns in the last 12 month. I also peruse forums for hints of "dead beat buyers" and add them to my blocked buyers list, which now has almost 500 "not wanted" buyers, along in limiting my payment options to: PayPal only. >>
And half of the BSTers are tapped out.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I almost sent the pants to her for free. >>
Same old song. You can't give up on eBay if you actually "want" to sell something. BST? Ya right. Maybe to promote your eBay sales.
I hope everyone quits. Then I will charge what I want!
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<< <i>I almost sent the pants to her for free. >>
Don't make me laugh.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>You guys know you can look up the house of the person buying to see how they live right? >>
I've used public records (Intelius) or Facebook to look up buyers just to get a better idea of what I'm dealing with. It helps to give some perspective if someone's being difficult, like the guy who won one of my auctions but refused to pay with PayPal and gave me a long political spiel with many website links of how PayPal is destroying our cash economy.
<< <i>I have quite a few larger customers what will see my listings on ebay and email me a list of the items they want. Ill send them an invoice on paypal with a discount for avoiding ebay and were both happy. >>
There are several large sellers who I've made MANY purchases from via Ebay. But when I look at their website of what they're selling outside of Ebay, I see no discount from their Ebay prices. So I prefer to buy via Ebay and have Ebay's protections.
It seems more logical that for what they're selling outside of Ebay, they could be selling at a 3-5% discount from their Ebay prices as they're avoiding paying Ebay fees. But I never see that.
Last December I purchased my first St. Gauden $20 coin on Ebay. It pained me that the seller (a small seller) was paying Ebay a 10% fee plus PayPal a 3% fee to make the sale, meaning that if I could have bought the coin direct without Ebay, he could have split the difference with me and sold it to me for $50-100 less and come out ahead. But then again... the Ebay buyer protections do provide value to the buyer and it can be worth paying a little more than a direct purchase.
My YouTube Channel
It will begin dealing with this
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Another buyer of a $1.50 coin, yes that is right $1.50, lied and said he never got the coin a couple months after I sent, gave me a negative.
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The low-end buyers are usually the most problematic.
I sold a PS2 soccer game once and got
<< <i>But keep some perspective here. Remember how it was in the late 1990s. All transactions were done outside of any Ebay system. You had to exchange contact information via email. Buyer had to mail check or money order by USPS. Seller had to deposit payment then wait to be sure it cleared before shipping. Total time for transactions were usually 3 weeks or so. Anyone could give feedback for any reason, negative included with retalitory negative feedback common. Disputes were often not worked out as there was no means for Ebay to mediate any dispute. Dishonest sellers were very common. Pictures were often not included with auction listings or were hosted by a 3rd party and would often be removed before buyer received coin to compare. >>
I remember it well. It appears though, that some of the critics are suffering from denial syndrome or short term memories.
<< <i>Another buyer of a $1.50 coin, yes that is right $1.50 >>
Did you ever consider having a garage sale? They can chisel you down to a buck and no negative feedback as an added bonus!
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<< <i>I almost sent the pants to her for free. >>
If you saw the trailer she is living in you wouldn't be laughing.
<< <i>I have quite a few larger customers what will see my listings on ebay and email me a list of the items they want. Ill send them an invoice on paypal with a discount for avoiding ebay and were both happy.
>>
So you use ebay to advertise, find a customer, then complete the deal avoiding ebay "and we're both happy"?
Umm, isn't that fraudulent? Circumvention of fees?
Better coin sellers are being driven away in favor of the bigger sellers with rolls and rolls of dreck. I've posted great pictures and nice coins all summer and it's been as slow as I've ever seen anyway. Example: the bottom feeders wouldn't pony up $20 for a raw toned 1936 Mercury Dime. I sent it to NGC and it came back an MS 67. Good eye there trolls. In that sense E-Bay and coins won't have much future together anyway.