interesting '75 Wax Box Sale
flatfoot816
Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭
another knowledgeable collector pointed this Probstein auction out to me. Is this a regular '75 wax box or a mini? The other collector--who also probably notified 1/2 of you--believes it to be a mini box. Aside from the poor condition of the box--if this is a mini--man did they get hosed
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I'm pretty sure the packs are regular sized judging by the "Baseball" graphic which looks too big to be the mini one.
In any case, this is going directly to BBCE for authentication. If found to be re-sealed, then Rick has assured me a full refund upon receipt. Felt it was worth taking a chance on given the assurances and relatively minor shipping costs.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Those are regular sized, not mini packs. If it were a partial box of 24 mini packs, it would have been hammered at about 1/4 the price it did. Still went for a fairly decent premium considering condition, imo, even for 36 packs. >>
Steve's buy price (as indicated on his site) for a 1975 Wax Box is $7,000. Wouldn't that make this buy price of $7,212.13 a steal seeing how I'd guess Steve would charge $9,000 to $10,000 for it?
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<< <i>Those are regular sized, not mini packs. If it were a partial box of 24 mini packs, it would have been hammered at about 1/4 the price it did. Still went for a fairly decent premium considering condition, imo, even for 36 packs. >>
Steve's buy price (as indicated on his site) for a 1975 Wax Box is $7,000. Wouldn't that make this buy price of $7,212.13 a steal seeing how I'd guess Steve would charge $9,000 to $10,000 for it? >>
10k is pretty steep, imo. But even if that were the price, I'm expecting a clean, fresh box at that price. For a box in this condition, I would estimate value at about 75-80% of full retail. There's also the risk that the raw purchase doesn't pan out, though for Josh's sake, I hope it does.
Even more remarkable imo was the hammer price on the 1970 box...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
To answer MantleMantra's question, I believe this is a $9,500 to $10,500 box when authenticated, and a pretty easy item to move (although I was looking to add this to my collection).
If it's legit then he stands to make $3k minus those costs?
If I was selling this item myself or was consigning it to someone like probstein, I would want all 36 packs to be shown as they are in the fourth pic except instead of showing the front of just four of them I would want all 36 to be shown this way front AND back--unless of course i have something to hide or am intentionally trying to deceive.
or are all of you guys going to call Steve a liar and sham if he wraps this box up? sure seems like some have already decided despite not having the thing in hand to inspect.
why don't we just wait and see what happens? i agree it's a gamble, but looks to be pretty low risk if things DON'T work out, and certainly worth it if they do.
a little patience, gang...
<< <i>Congrats on the 75 box Josh! I shipped Steve out a 79 Topps Baseball Box and was charged $100 based on the $2,000 price at that time (Those boxes are cheaper on site as other packs are also cheaper than weeks & months ago). Rick also will honor if the box come back no good! I had some packs I bought from him & sent them out for grading (Which took months) & came back No Good & he even honored that! >>
While it's good to hear that Rick made good on the packs that turned out to be resealed, I would hope that Rick is also exercising due diligence in inspecting raw product, particularly when it comes to higher end product and keeping track from what source the product is coming.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Absolutely correct Tim. What I was gonna post. Because what happens if someone who buys the box doesn't really care about getting it authenticated now. Like my '73 wax box that was bad--it sat in my collection for years before I tried to get it authenticated.
But I am sure that Rick is working diligently to ID the bad bad raw packs---
and to the buyer--best of luck. not sure I would have gone there though--not worth the agida
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
<< <i>sorry to hear, but not surprised one bit. >>
+1
Sorry to hear that, Josh. I feel even worse for the guy who plunked down over 10K on the resealed 1970 box.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Is regular 75' box worth that much more than a mini box?? I see a mini box with a BIN of $3,500 on eBay.
<< <i> I don't know why Rick even accepts packs that aren't graded & definitely whole boxes that aren't BBCE wrapped >>
the jeter, the jordan, the magie, the gpk os2, this 75 box, that 70 box, etc
one could suggest a pattern.
wish we weren't leashed. i'd love to lay in to this and answer your question...
edit to add: I buy PSA cards from him and don't mean to throw him under the bus...just trying to help.
<< <i>You see packs of 75' mini's all day everyday as well as boxes. You rarely see wax packs of 75' regular nevertheless a box full! I had a PSA 7 pack that sold on ebay almost $200 a year ago! I don't know why Rick even accepts packs that aren't graded & definitely whole boxes that aren't BBCE wrapped at the high a dollar anyway! I know when I had my hiccup on some bad wax I bought from Rick, he said he would tracking down the cosigner! Why wouldn't a collector just get the box wrapped to maximize the return if the box is truly legit unless of you don't know about the bbcexchange or you got something to hide! >>
The time has past for AH's to continue selling non-certified unopened. Consignor calls with unopened, simply have them ship to BBCE, and have Steve ship to you. Eliminates the "full refund if found bogus" disclaimer that waste everyone's time. Couldn't we all agree that at this point in unopened history, if its' for sale and not certified, it's bogus?
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
<< <i> Couldn't we all agree that at this point in unopened history, if its' for sale and not certified, it's bogus? >>
Not even close. How many people here would even be aware of BBCE if it weren't for this forum and others like it?
Not by a longshot
as for this comment---- I don't know why Rick even accepts packs that aren't graded & definitely whole boxes that aren't BBCE wrapped at the high a dollar anyway!
only to make $$$$--I do not think that Rick really cares about hobby integrity--just read his smart butt comments when he posts. Thinks it is all a joke on us
Thanks Rick--that's why more and more hi end consignments go PWCC's way---You're the best marketing idea PWCC could come up with
I was the winning bidder on the 1970 Box. I was really pumped yet figured it would be too good to be true. I had Steve check out the listing before I even paid to see what he thought. Without going into all the details Steve could tell right away from the pics that it would be a "no go" with him. I did not pay and alerted Rick P who stood behind my decision. Was bummed but also glad and VERY thankful for Steve.
Anyways, hopefully I will find time to share some of the cool pickups that have worked out for me the past couple years.
All the best to everyone.
Sorry to hear about the 1970 and 1975 boxes. I had hopes for the 1975. 1970 looked pretty iffy to me, but would have been a nice score.
While I disagree that we are at the point where anything not wrapped is likely resealed (I have purchased about a half-dozen 1970s boxes from AHs and only had an issue with part of one), the bigger name auction houses typically have people on their staffs with experience in reviewing unopened material. While they may not be BBCE-level (who is?), they seem to be pretty good at what they do. I don't know Rick's level of experience with unopened, but the appearance is that he is out of his element and should bring in some outside help in this area or send product to BBCE.
Refunds won't be an issue. Either they happen willfully or you just open a case with eBay. There are three levels of protection here: (1) eBay; (2) PayPal; (3) the underlying credit card provider. I wouldn't be worried in the least.
<< <i>Refunds won't be an issue. Either they happen willfully or you just open a case with eBay. There are three levels of protection here: (1) eBay; (2) PayPal; (3) the underlying credit card provider. I wouldn't be worried in the least. >>
So I guess we know what to expect from Probstein's 2016 National chocolate eating contest then.
Snorto~
<< <i>I have been a lurker for some time. I really enjoy all the posts. I collected as a kid primarily in 1981 - 1984. I remember going to card shows in Madison WI buying from Larry Fritsch and all the others and was always interested in the "old stuff". I dove back into buying vintage the past 2 years through PWCC, EBAY, BBCE and Collect Auctions. I been through the pain of trying to buy vintage unopened from Fritsch and their frustrating customer service. I've sent cards to PSA and been through the ups and downs of that. Steve Hart has really been great to work with when it comes to buying vintage unopened direct from him, and also for authenticating/wrapping.
I was the winning bidder on the 1970 Box. I was really pumped yet figured it would be too good to be true. I had Steve check out the listing before I even paid to see what he thought. Without going into all the details Steve could tell right away from the pics that it would be a "no go" with him. I did not pay and alerted Rick P who stood behind my decision. Was bummed but also glad and VERY thankful for Steve.
Anyways, hopefully I will find time to share some of the cool pickups that have worked out for me the past couple years.
All the best to everyone. >>
Welcome to the boards. Sorry about the bust. I was watching that box, but without BBCE having wrapped it, there was no way I was bidding. IF it's too good to be true ... it's just that. The Dude
<< <i>Funny tossed some of you lynching Rick for this.....is he supposed to be a pack expert? He stood behind his auction. Seems stand up to me >>
If you are going to accept $8K, $10K, etc. consignments, there is a baseline level of consignee competency that will reasonably be expected. The same way, for example, that a car auction house shouldn't be caught selling a reproduction, or a high-end handbag AH shouldn't be selling a counterfeit. I don't know what level of competency Rick has in this area, but two bad high-end boxes in a row doesn't look good.
<< <i>
Sorry to hear about the 1970 and 1975 boxes. I had hopes for the 1975. 1970 looked pretty iffy to me, but would have been a nice score.
While I disagree that we are at the point where anything not wrapped is likely resealed (I have purchased about a half-dozen 1970s boxes from AHs and only had an issue with part of one), the bigger name auction houses typically have people on their staffs with experience in reviewing unopened material. While they may not be BBCE-level (who is?), they seem to be pretty good at what they do. I don't know Rick's level of experience with unopened, but the appearance is that he is out of his element and should bring in some outside help in this area or send product to BBCE.
>>
I think this statement is very misleading. Just about EVERY AH has been guilty of selling unopened material that they continued to offer even
after were told it was not authentic by someone who knew what they were doing. They DO NOT have staff with significant experience in vintage
unopened, and their disclaimers are craftily worded to basically say that "all sales are final" and that "they are not graders/authenticators, they
rely on the opinions of recognized 3rd parties and they make not representations about authenticity".
Bottom line is that before buying on or bidding on anything vintage unopened you either:
a) need to know your stuff personally
b) understand the experience and abilities of the TPG to provide an accurate determination
c) when available, have understanding of the provenance of the item(s) being offered
d) when available, have understanding of the sellers previous unopened sales (if any) and what they buyer received
e) all of the above or as many of the above as possible
This segment of the hobby is, unfortunately, very dangerous for inexperienced collectors. AH's care about only 2 things;
consignor fees and buyer premiums. Protect yourself, because the AH's are only looking out for themselves.
Dave
<< <i>Funny tossed some of you lynching Rick for this.....is he supposed to be a pack expert? He stood behind his auction. Seems stand up to me >>
"i didn't go out and rob someone today, all praise me"