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What is with the recent drop in Platinum?

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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    B/S/T ing, is the name of the game
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Got a call from a fellow today wanting an ounce of platinum at spot. image Can any of you guys help me out ?
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    Got a call from a fellow today wanting an ounce of platinum at spot. image Can any of you guys help me out ?




    Tell him to open a store and buy it in over the counter.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you find some platinum at spot, please share.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The spread between platinum and gold has now exceeded $270.



    Gold $1090, platinum $819.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    Got a call from a fellow today wanting an ounce of platinum at spot. image Can any of you guys help me out ?




    Ask him how much he expects to get when he sells it. If he says "Spot" or "over Spot" tell him he is a damp fool.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tell him he is a damp fool



    Yes, tell him he's "all wet"!image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I told him if he joined my club and paid the dues, I could get him platinum at competitive prices. image He seems to think he can find it for less. Am guessing he is in the inner circle of trust image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    I told him if he joined my club and paid the dues, I could get him platinum at competitive prices. image He seems to think he can find it for less. Am guessing he is in the inner circle of trust image




    There are always people who think that the Law Of Supply And Demand does not apply to them.



    Of course, if he is buying it to make a jewelry casting he might actually be able to get something at melt, such as a damaged bar or an Israeli state medal or something by the Franklin Mint or something else equally un-retailable. What form was he looking for?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heard a good, plausible explanation for the weakness in the PGM Group. Russia is a major producer, and they are getting severely hurt by the Crimean sanctions and by the weak prices of oil and natural gas, which they export. Under the circumstances they may be selling off all or part of their PGM stockpiles.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spread closing in on $300.



    Gold $1104, platinum $814.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We live in interesting times. It looks to me as if silver has taken on more characteristics of it's monetary component, while platinum is being discounted because it has no monetary component.



    Until lately, both silver and platinum could be counted on to track the general business climate, while gold remained most influenced by monetary factors. I think that this divergence between silver and platinum tells me something - monetary factors are becoming more important than economic factors.



    If you think the economy is due for a bounce, platinum is a screaming buy. I don't really think that's the case, and if the economy drags or gets weaker, platinum may languish for quite some time.



    Prices on Platinum Eagles have come down along with spot, but the premiums on Platinum Eagles are still quite high. This could simply mean that retail demand isn't tracking industrial demand. Maybe cohodk will check in and let us know if he found some low-premium platinum bullion somewhere.



    As always, the time to buy is when nobody wants it. We're getting there, but if retail buyers are still holding on, maybe we're not all the way there yet. As usual, it's all just speculation!image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gold looks historically expensive compared to other commodities. Is it? Or is it losing its status as a commodity?
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: cohodk

    Gold looks historically expensive compared to other commodities. Is it? Or is it losing its status as a commodity?




    Gold, silver, and platinum metals are commodities.



    Gold, silver, and platinum coins are collectibles image



    all coins have "collector premium", some just have a little bit, some have quite a lot.



    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some - myself included - would say that gold and silver have more than just a commodity or a collectible component.



    IMF and central banks shouldn't be in the commodity business, if gold and silver are mere commodities. The reality is that you can't drive the monetary component out of precious metals with rhetoric. They are time-tested and time-proven throughout history.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if gold and silver are mere commodities



    I didn't say "mere"



    It's the adjectives that are loaded with emotion when people talk about things.



    Are they "mere"? Are they "crucial" or "barbaric" or "beautiful" or "boring" or any other subjective word?



    some people's emotions say yes, some say no.



    Another word loaded with emotion, nuance, and subjectivity:



    "Should"



    When people use it, they're expressing an opinion

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Referencing precious metals as commodities is one way of marginalizing their monetary importance, in my opinion.



    Calling out the use of an emotionally-charged opinion with use of "should" is a way of eliminating an opposing view, in my opinion.



    If one thinks that banks should be in the commodity business, then we have a different opinion of what function that banks should play in society, in my opinion.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The spread between gold and platinum has now exceeded $300, and continues to widen!

    Gold $1237.

    Platinum $931.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    The spread between gold and platinum has now exceeded $300, and continues to widen!

    Gold $1237.

    Platinum $931.


    I think Platinum is a good deal at this point.
    (If you can get it with a reasonable premium)
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    Not PM related, but the Dow has been bigger than the NIKKEI the last few days. Usually the NIKKEI has always been bigger.

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: asheland
    I think Platinum is a good deal at this point.
    (If you can get it with a reasonable premium)

    U.S. Platinum Eagles still carry a high premium, some platinum coins from other countries have somewhat lower premiums. Overall the buy/sell spread on platinum coins is higher than on gold and silver, so exchange traded funds are more reasonable in that respect.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree the premiums are high at times.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The spread between gold and platinum is now $311, the widest I can remember!

    Gold $1286.

    Platinum $975.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    The spread between gold and platinum is now $311, the widest I can remember!

    Gold $1286.

    Platinum $975.


    It's crazy, I have been tempted to buy some plat bullion.

    The Mint is set to issue a plat on 6/30 I am in for a couple.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    Never bought from the mint. Do they have a crazy premium on plat eagles like the secondary market does?

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BBN
    Never bought from the mint. Do they have a crazy premium on plat eagles like the secondary market does?

    $1350 if plat spot holds between $950 and $1000.

    Not really much risk here, bullion 1 oz. platinum eagles are fetching around $1200 to $1250 at the moment.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    Originally posted by: BBN
    Never bought from the mint. Do they have a crazy premium on plat eagles like the secondary market does?

    $1350 if plat spot holds between $950 and $1000.

    Not really much risk here, bullion 1 oz. platinum eagles are fetching around $1200 to $1250 at the moment.




    Sure the seven people that want them will pay that image

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bronco2078

    Originally posted by: Overdate

    Originally posted by: BBN

    Never bought from the mint. Do they have a crazy premium on plat eagles like the secondary market does?


    $1350 if plat spot holds between $950 and $1000.



    Not really much risk here, bullion 1 oz. platinum eagles are fetching around $1200 to $1250 at the moment.









    Sure the seven people that want them will pay that image







    7 eBay buyers did just that. In the last 2 days. eBay completed $100 Pt



  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: VanHalen
    Originally posted by: bronco2078
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    Originally posted by: BBN
    Never bought from the mint. Do they have a crazy premium on plat eagles like the secondary market does?

    $1350 if plat spot holds between $950 and $1000.

    Not really much risk here, bullion 1 oz. platinum eagles are fetching around $1200 to $1250 at the moment.




    Sure the seven people that want them will pay that image



    7 eBay buyers did just that. In the last 2 days. eBay completed $100 Pt




    I know i searched image 7 sales on ebay meanwhile how many sales of gold ?

    If there were 7 sales of platinum ebay will show all 7 , if there were 2000 of gold ebay might show one tenth.

    They do sell at that price but thats not exactly a sign of liquidity.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The lack of liquidity for platinum eagles is in great measure due to the lack of supply. I suspect there would be quite a bit of demand if the government treated them as the bullion coins they're supposed to be, rather than as a once-a-year art canvas. A one-off mintage of 16,900 one-ounce plats in 2014 constitutes the only appearance of the bullion version in the past seven years.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    The lack of liquidity for platinum eagles is in great measure due to the lack of supply. I suspect there would be quite a bit of demand if the government treated them as the bullion coins they're supposed to be, rather than as a once-a-year art canvas. A one-off mintage of 16,900 one-ounce plats in 2014 constitutes the only appearance of the bullion version in the past seven years.



    I agree with that but if there was a ton of interest at the high markups the mint gets why didnt they make more then?
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with that but if there was a ton of interest at the high markups the mint gets why didnt they make more then?

    I've read within the past week that there's a shortage of platinum, which might explain why they are only making the high premium collector proofs.

    For the Mint, any convenient excuse will do.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: jmski52
    I've read within the past week that there's a shortage of platinum, which might explain why they are only making the high premium collector proofs.

    The current price of platinum tells me there is no shortage.

    5 year chart

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Cakes
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    The spread between gold and platinum is now $311, the widest I can remember!

    Gold $1286.

    Platinum $975.


    It's crazy, I have been tempted to buy some plat bullion.

    The Mint is set to issue a plat on 6/30 I am in for a couple.



    Don't 'buy' platinum, but rather, trade your gold for platinum.

    This way, not only are you taking advantage of the low platinum price, but you're getting the extra benefit of accumulating more platinum than at any other historical time.

    Then when prices (or ratios) level off to their historical norms, trade back the platinum to gold.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: DoubleEagle59
    Originally posted by: Cakes
    Originally posted by: Overdate
    The spread between gold and platinum is now $311, the widest I can remember!

    Gold $1286.

    Platinum $975.


    It's crazy, I have been tempted to buy some plat bullion.

    The Mint is set to issue a plat on 6/30 I am in for a couple.



    Don't 'buy' platinum, but rather, trade your gold for platinum.

    This way, not only are you taking advantage of the low platinum price, but you're getting the extra benefit of accumulating more platinum than at any other historical time.

    Then when prices (or ratios) level off to their historical norms, trade back the platinum to gold.



    Solid advice, thank you.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't 'buy' platinum, but rather, trade your gold for platinum.

    This way, not only are you taking advantage of the low platinum price, but you're getting the extra benefit of accumulating more platinum than at any other historical time.

    Then when prices (or ratios) level off to their historical norms, trade back the platinum to gold.


    It would be a bit more conservative to hold your gold and just go ahead & buy a little platinum.

    Consider the transaction costs, and tax implications. Always. (i.e., don't unnecessarily churn the account).
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Platinum is spiking up hard!

    Now $1136, only $202 below the price of gold, starting to close the gap.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did anybody think there was going to be a rate hike this summer? The spike after The Fed's minutes were released seems exaggerated.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Overdate

    Platinum is spiking up hard!



    Now $1136, only $202 below the price of gold, starting to close the gap.






    Fresh break out in plat and platinum miners/producers like SWC. Plat looks headed to the $1350-$1375 region. And there's good reason for it to get back to at least get back to the gold price. The 1 yr chart is quite symmetric. Next major resistance is around the 5 yr down trend line at $1200/oz.



    1 yr Plat chart



    3 month and 11 month pattern break outs. Good call by Jmski52 back in January, which was also the bottom for gold and miners.



    Plat vs. other PM issues





    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    18,400 of the Uncs have been reported as sold thus far. Plus 9,452 of the Proofs thus far. Looks like demand is picking up, along with the price.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "South Africa output topples platinum, palladium prices"

    Link

    Now about $200 behind gold.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Platinum has retreated faster than gold, now about $294 lower. Platinum seems to move faster than gold on both the upside and downside.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like to see the reaction vs proaction on this forum. Predictability is a prerequisite of success.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Platinum seems to move faster than gold on both the upside and downside.

    It's a thinner market, for sure.

    I like to see the reaction vs proaction on this forum. Predictability is a prerequisite of success.

    What's your proactive move? Mine is that I've been selling some low-end and extra stuff to generate liquid capital while trying to stay tax-neutral. I've also been adding some of the last few Plats that I need.

    I'll be buying some more bullion before too long.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Platinum is now $303 behind gold.

    Platinum $1036.
    Gold $1339.

    The gap between the two has widened by $100 in less than seven weeks.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just heard an advertisement on the radio today saying that you should buy platinum. This is probably not a good development.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Platinum is now $322 below gold. Lowest I can remember.
    Gold $1254.
    Platinum $932.
    It takes 4 ounces of platinum to buy 3 ounces of gold.
    How low can it go?

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    About 9 days until the election:

    Gold $1,274.70
    Platinum $ 977.00

    Friday's move was Gold +6.60; Platinum's was +15.00.
    Current Spread: $297.70

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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