What is with the recent drop in Platinum?
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For so long it was more expensive than gold, but has lost much more value than gold. Did gold hold its value better than silver and platinum simply because of its cultural popularity? Has there been a decrease in the purchases of new autos (catalytic converter)? Is the catalytic converter the main catalyst keeping platinum at the price it's at?
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I knew it would happen.
Platinum like all other commodities have been under steady downside pressure since commodities peaked in 2011. What would help platinum would be a shutdown of one of the 4 big mines or an extended strike....something to shift the supply/demand schedule.
Post QE and no more QE in sight?
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<< <i>I'm looking around and there is an absurd premium on platinum eagles. What's driving this as compared to current price? Is anyone even buying with the current premium? >>
When the spot price of Platinum drops sharply, you'll find premiums so high that the actual price is nearly the same as before the drop in spot price. Or stock being pulled from the shelves until the price recovers. That is one of the hazards/perks of thinly traded metals.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Starting to look at platinum again.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Platinum $940.
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Difference $187.
I don't recall ever seeing platinum trading at this big a discount to gold.
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<< <i>Wish I had the answer... it is a puzzle to me. >>
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Platinum $929.
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The platinum discount just passed $200. Wow!
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The VW incident will depress the demand for such vehicles and with it the industrial demand for platinum.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Platinum is used in the catalytic converters of all cars not just diesel. If auto sales fall so does demand for platinum. >>
Correct and widely known....however, platinum is more heavily used in desiels and VW was the major seller of desiel cars in the US.
The fake desiel emissions reports is apparently going to really squash that market because to get the emissions down to government standards it will really reduce their milage and the "responsiveness" of such vehicles which will kill the market for desiels in this country.
That is what will further depress platinum.
<< <i>Platinum is used in desiel auto engines.
The VW incident will depress the demand for such vehicles and with it the industrial demand for platinum. >>
Maybe it will require more platinum per catalytic converter to correctly meet emission standards. Maybe they were skimping on the amount of platinum they were using.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Platinum is used in desiel auto engines.
The VW incident will depress the demand for such vehicles and with it the industrial demand for platinum. >>
Maybe it will require more platinum per catalytic converter to correctly meet emission standards. Maybe they were skimping on the amount of platinum they were using. >>
I caught this tidbit on the car radio today....they said the VW scandal will put the kabash on diesel cars in this country and that would further depress platinum.
Pretty clear I am a bad speller !
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I knew it would happen.
Friends don't let friends buy platinum . Coin and jewelry demand for platinum is abysmal and even if spot drops to 500 should stay that way.
Fools rush in, where wise men never go.................
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I can safely say that it's not getting any easier to mine platinum. >>
or type it on my keyboard. platimun
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I'm thinking of loading up the cart when this year's Plats come out. >>
Will you be able to obtain them anywhere close to spot? The current premiums on platinum eagles are very high. In many cases bullion platinum eagles are bringing more than gold eagles, even though platinum is nearly $200 cheaper than gold.
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I knew it would happen.
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"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>what will happen to platinum demand if all those existing VW diesels require a mandated new catylitic converter under a recall to meet emissions standards?
What happened to platinum during the late 70s when there was little use of catalytic converters?
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<< <i>what will happen to platinum demand if all those existing VW diesels require a mandated new catylitic converter under a recall to meet emissions standards?
They won't fix it in a way that costs them money. If anything they they will flash the computer to operate in emission test mode all the time . Then it will be clean burning , have no power , and get lousy mileage.
Anyone that has a VW diesel should ignore any notices or offers to fix this issue with their car if they want it to still perform the way it does now.
Looks to be headed to $800 for starters to match the 2008 low. Many other commodities are already there are lower. All current support levels are busted so that's that first logical point. I don't know if that $650-$700 gap on the chart is real but that would be a solid target if it were. Not particularly a good chart for PMs in general since platinum and gold/silver have some linkage.
But I thought $800 billion zillion in derivatives was supposed to pull PMs from the depths of oblivion?
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<< <i>Not particularly a good chart for PMs in general since platinum and gold/silver have some linkage
But I thought $800 billion zillion in derivatives was supposed to pull PMs from the depths of oblivion? >>
patience Grasshopper
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
tick tock tick tock
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Not particularly a good chart for PMs in general since platinum and gold/silver have some linkage
But I thought $800 billion zillion in derivatives was supposed to pull PMs from the depths of oblivion? >>
patience Grasshopper >>
I guess we have to wait for 80% declines and a decade of time to pass. If only I was warned.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I have patience, and maybe 30 or 40 years left, hope I get once more chance to sell gold and platinum above $1700, and silver above $45, before my time is up
tick tock tick tock >>
Doubtful…JMHO!
<< <i>Not particularly a good chart for PMs in general since platinum and gold/silver have some linkage
But I thought $800 billion zillion in derivatives was supposed to pull PMs from the depths of oblivion? >>
More like the the $800 BZ was supposed to push PMs and commods into oblivion. Still doing a pretty good job too.
You had it all wrong, as usual. JPM and the big boyz have typically played the short side of the PMs derivative's trade since at least 2007. You must have skipped all these classes where this was being discussed. Citigroup added $50 BILL in otc silver derivatives in the first quarter. JPM's recent $4 TRILL in commod derivatives certainly seems to be taking its toll the past few months. Gee, I wonder who was stating back in early July that those world record derivative positions were effectively netted out and essentially meaningless to commodity markets? And now in the news we have commodity derivative's trader/miner Glencore that seems to be teetering on its own LTCM/Enron style derivative's nightmare ($19 BILL notional, $30 BILL in debt....and $6 BILL in supposed assets). You'd have to wonder it JPM's mission was to take out Glencore and others? It's an interesting idea. What do they care about the carnage from their positions as long as the bank makes their trading profits?
You were warned about the destructive power of otc derivatives....back when you first joined the board in 2004. Or course, you refused to believe any of that....and still do. Yet, we've seen the end result a half dozen times since then. More to come.
Inflation's not here yet.
If you think inflation's never going to happen, then cut your losses, you silly people, and buy bonds.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>I thought PMs were a hedge against inflation.
Inflation's not here yet.
If you think inflation's never going to happen, then cut your losses, you silly people, and buy bonds. >>
That's what most think. But it's not exactly true. PMs are a hedge against a loss of confidence in sovereign currencies. They also hedge against negative "real" interest rates. We had rip-roaring recessions in 2000-2003 and also 2009-2011. How did gold do during those non-inflationary times?
Inflation is where you look. We've had ridiculous asset inflation in stocks, bonds, and in real estate around the world since 2009....due to $TRILLs in QE added around the world. That's very inflationary....depending on where it lands. Also toss in art and collectibles, top 1-5% of rare coins, etc. Just because commodity prices have been in the tank for 4 years doesn't mean there's not price inflation out there. The US has had high inflation in health care pricing and higher eduction. Taxes and fees continue to rise. Fwiw, half the countries of the world have inflation rates of >4%. A dozen or so have rates >10%. Several are in full blown hyperinflation (ie complete loss of confidence in the currency/govt). You can't grade the entire world on just the US and Europe. Inflation is always happening....only a matter of where and how much. Central banks have been net buyers of physical gold since 2009. China, India, Russia, and other have been buying a lot of physical gold in that time. They must be expecting something to require those additions....and it might not be price inflation.
<< <i>I thought PMs were a hedge against inflation.
Inflation's not here yet.
If you think inflation's never going to happen, then cut your losses, you silly people, and buy bonds. >>
Platinum is a hedge against cash , it basically hedges against cash accumulating in your wallet . Its probably safer to take up smoking if you just want to throw money away.
All is calm. All is bright.
I saw it dipped below $900 earlier today!
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"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Details of the VW recall could cause platinum to skyrocket. A replacement converter for all those cars is a doubling of the platinum demand created by those cars. >>
Depends on whether the old converters are recycled. Also whether sales of new diesel cars take a nosedive.
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Analysts are predicting diesel car sales will in fact nosedive.