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PCGS vs. NGC Holder Premium for Low Pop WLH

JBNJBN Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
What will the PCGS vs. NGC holder premium amount to for a low pop coin in the popular WLH series?

Bought as NGC MS67 CAC on April 26, 2015 for $16450, this coin now resides in a PCGS holder and has re-acquired its CAC designation.

1916 WLH PCGS MS67

The population has been pretty stable at four pieces (for at least 8 years).

On the plus side, a 1916P in P67 has not appeared for quite some time (PCGS priceguide is $13K!).

On the negative side, there is a blizzard of high quality early date WLHs going to auction.

It is amazing that someone is going to get (IMHO) a five figure payday for a minimum effort four month flip. Sometimes, money does simply grow on trees.

Comments

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot like real estate, location time.

    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep it in the NGC holder.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Keep it in the NGC holder. >>



    > this coin now resides in a PCGS holder and has re-acquired its CAC designation.

    Too late, PCGS won already image
    In a good day, I would estimate 10% to 20% premium (could go much higher) provided that it has enough appearance image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I remember this coin. I didn't like it, as the images made it look lack-luster, so I question it's originality (I need better images or an in-hand inspection). I don't see a big pay day, if the guide says 13k and the owner paid over 16K for it. JMHO. When was the last PCGS example offered? If it was over 5 years ago then that could make a big difference.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $19K with one day left.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Impressive. A $3000 profit ain't too shabby, thus far. image I can't wait, until tomorrow to watch this auction go off. Looks like there will be intense, record breaking prices.

    1917 S Obv. MS 67 pop 1 has reached nearly $100K, as well!

    The live event almost always gets things going even higher. This event should be breathtaking.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The PCGS premium to NGC during the 1998-2008 was always in the 5-15% range for the identical coins in different holders. So a 10-15% premium today is quite reasonable and expected....for the same coin. That's just the margin for the differences in grading and the pop variances. A premium of 30-50% would not surprise me. The perception of a better date PCGS MS67 vs. NGC 67 walker is huge.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice coin regardless of the holder

    Latin American Collection

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is an impressive Walker.... looks as if it will close well over $20K.....Cheers, RickO
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice coin for sure!

    My YouTube Channel

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet !!! :-)
    Timbuk3
  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $30K hammer. $16450 price in NGC.

    Hefty PCGS premium in this case.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm utterly speechless. Tremendous hype surrounding this auction. Either that or the market is a blazing inferno.

    1917 S Obv in 65 sold for $21150. I thought the coin looked dipped, abraded and flatly struck.

    The gorgeous 1917 S obv pop 1 in 67 went for $152750. I hope Forsythe got it. Loved that coin!!

    Nice GBW 17 S rev. for $37600.

    Almost $100K for the 18 D in 66. Both it and the 18D 65 had marks on the right facing breast that concerned me.

    1919 67 $54000 another record for a nice example.

    1919d in 63 was overgraded IMHO and at $11750 price suggests it.

    I really liked the 20 D 66 at $54000.

    Didn't care for the 21 P 66 at $54000

    1921 D 64 looked to have some bad pmd in the right field and I was shocked at the $18800 hammer price, yet impressed nonetheless.

    $94K for a 21 d 66!!! Amazing!

    I hated the 21S 65 at $117K. Looked dull, abraded and poorly struck to me.

    The $19975 1923-S 65 left me impressed only by the price and not the coin.

    The 23-S in 66 was nice and smooth but I didn't care for the darker speckled toning. $25850 for that example.

    The OGH 28-S in 66 was nice and original. I liked it at $25850.

    The 33-S in 67 looked to be a decent coin for $18800.

    Prices were simply off the hook. WOW!!


    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congratulations to Eric Lane on his great results. I was the under bidder on the 20-D and got the feeling I could have gone up another twenty thousand and not won.
    These results will require that I give some thought to whether the time has come for me to sell my set. High end Walkers have been on fire.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    High end walkers are on fire and have been.

    You can not get properly paid for NGC holdered in several series in particular grades. I don't understand why people are in denial about this.

    Keeping the coin in the NGC holder is terrible advise in the current market.

    Congrats to Eric and the winners of these fantastic coins

    Mark
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the biggest shocker among the Walkers was the 1918 at $32900. The previous high auction price for a 1918 is $17000 and the CU price is $9500. Just wow.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • supertoothsupertooth Posts: 274 ✭
    Hello Folks---Well, it becomes ever more apparent over time that the early Walkers in Gem condition---are leaving even the "almost rich" Walker collectors in the dust. It seems that you better have at least a couple of million to play with---if your starting goals are an MS65 or greater set. The problem used to be finding Gem coins that you like. Now the problem is not only the finding of acceptable coins---but being able to afford them. The demand as well as certain buyers' egos in the process of the bidding---seems to be taking the final prices to a WOW conclusion.

    The Walkers have become one of the most popular series to collect. You can go from low grades to the Gems and everywhere in between. There is something for everyone it would seem. Hope the new owners of these coins enjoy their purchases. Bob [supertooth]
    Bob
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,441 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Keeping the coin in the NGC holder is terrible advise in the current market. >>


    Yes, that really hit home (at least to me) looking at the results last night.




    << <i>The problem used to be finding Gem coins that you like. Now the problem is not only the finding of acceptable coins---but being able to afford them. >>


    Since I mostly play in the AU to MS64 arena, that hasn't been a big problem for me, as I generally felt the price spreads between lower and higher MS grades was crazy.....I used to think the early date sliders offered tremendous value, but even the prices for those has gotten a little nutty.



    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭
    WOW (regarding the auction results). Just WOW. Looks like a time to cash out big time on GEM+ earlies if you've been contemplating it.
    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Congratulations to Eric Lane on his great results. I was the under bidder on the 20-D and got the feeling I could have gone up another twenty thousand and not won.
    These results will require that I give some thought to whether the time has come for me to sell my set. High end Walkers have been on fire. >>



    I thought about you concerning this coin. I was wondering, if you were going to go after it. Sorry that you didn't get it. Bidding was frenetic, as you know, so I hope the new owner plans to hold really long term. I would be sad to see you get out but could understand the why, if you did. Maybe a real nice 65 1920-D will be in your future? I hope so. image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I needed both the 1916 and 1918 MS-66 to complete my PCGS/CAC MS-66 Philly walker set.

    I was stunned at the prices the walkers attained at the auction. The 1918 went for more than 3x the PCGS price guide of $9500 which I already knew was way too low.

    Well, I am probably too late to get a 1918 at a cheap price but I went to work and found an imperfect but a WOW 1916 walker in OGH PCGS/CAC MS-66 for $3200. WAY LOWER than the MS-67 1916 walker pricing!!

    It is mottled but attractive original looking but the Heritage pictures made it look MUCH WORSE than it really looked.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> Well, I am probably too late to get a 1918 at a cheap price but I went to work and found an imperfect but a WOW 1916 walker in OGH PCGS/CAC MS-66 for $3200. WAY LOWER than the MS-67 1916 walker pricing!!

    It is mottled but attractive original looking but the Heritage pictures made it look MUCH WORSE than it really looked. >>



    That looks to be a very nice coin, Oreville. The toning looks original and, although a little heavier, still very attractive. I love the OGH and CAC sticker, as well. Great strike, too. You got it at a great price, as well. You will do very well investment-wise with that coin. Big Congrats to you!! image

    And don't think that you have no chance to get your final 1918 coin. I think that you will, either with a dealer, or in an auction setting that is less hyped, frenzied and ego-driven.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is another one that blew my mind. The retail price is about $5900. This one commanded $21150!

    image

    image

    image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • AblinkyAblinky Posts: 626 ✭✭✭
    I watched the live session which included many of the Eric Lane coins. I was blown away by much many sold for. Usually many multiples of what coins in the same grade were selling more in the same sale.

    Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage

  • NicNic Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 20-d was a monster.

    My 1866 Philly Mint Set

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,441 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here is another one that blew my mind. The retail price is about $5900. This one commanded $21150! >>


    Wow - glad I don't have to have the best, or even the second best LOL!

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The 20-d was a monster. >>



    image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • ChristosChristos Posts: 950 ✭
    Now, if those darn Oregon commemoratives would start doing what walkers are doing....
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The better question is "What are the attributes of the coin that separate it from others at the same grade level?"

    There still seems to be this automatic view that is the plastic that creates the premium overriding the look of the coin in terms of what collectors are willing to pay.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This and the other 1921 PCGS walker that sold at ANA Heritage August 12, 2015 are the only two 1921 walkers that received CAC stickering.
    The NGC slabbed ones do not have the same amount of luster as these two coins.

    It isn't simply the plastic that separates the PCGS from the NGC. The PCGS graded coins have thus far superior quality for the assigned grade.

    image
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did any posters win any of the walkers at the ANA?
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!

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