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Trade Dollar guys, why is my 1877 T$1 only an AU55?

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's a beautiful white coin with semi PL surfaces....it's gorgeous, virtually spotless.

I sent her to PCGS for regrade service in a Secure holder.

She was already a 55, and she came back a 55.

I've seen 61 and 62 Trade Dollars not as nice as this one.

Any thoughts and comments appreciated.

image

Comments

  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭✭
    AU55 seems appropriate. I see some slight friction scattered in the fields, and the luster does not appear nearly as full as on MS examples.
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of light scuffing in fields on both sides, and much loss of frost leading to reduced lustre.

    Great coin as a 55!
    When in doubt, don't.
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ownership deducts 7 points in some rare cases.

    image
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are my iPhone pics for another view.

    image

    image
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I see light wear on the obverse high points, specifically the crown and hair, left breast and leg, and there appears to be a little wear on the left forearm, too. The reverse appears more 58ish to me, but I can see a little wear on the E and U in the motto banner, the tip of the eagle's wing, and possibly on the talons. Now, some of those (like the hair and crown) could be striking issues, but hard to tell not in hand.

    Still, a very nice looking T$1!!!
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GoldBully,

    The PCGS TrueView photos of your Trade Dollar make her look more like an AU-58 to possible Mint State coin.

    However, your iPhone photos appear to justify the assigned AU-55 grade due to hairline scratches and luster breaks in the unprotected field areas.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,133 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The cell phone view explains the grade better than the first photo. There appears to be a light rub over the entire surface of the piece. The luster is slightly imparied with explains the grade.

    Unfortunately grading guides concentrate on wear on the devices. General wear over the fields that subdues the luster is also a grading factor.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>GoldBully,

    The PCGS TrueView photos of your Trade Dollar make her look more like an AU-58 to possible Mint State coin.

    However, your iPhone photos appear to justify the assigned AU-55 grade due to hairline scratches and luster breaks in the unprotected field areas. >>



    I agree. And think it's graded properly.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,385 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ditto some of mbogoman, stuart, billjones


    the iphone pics sealed the deal.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • JGnumismaticsJGnumismatics Posts: 986 ✭✭✭
    I agree with the OP, I think it looks better then a 55, maybe not MS but currently have a 58 that looks shameful compared with this 55. Also, not positive on this.....but I was under the assumption that with the pcgs secure holders a possible upgrade is basically impossible as they have a photo record of the coin. Not saying I believe this or not...or that its true just interested in others thoughts as I've heard it around many times.


    All in all, nice looking trade $!
    JG Numismatics
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  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree with the OP, I think it looks better then a 55, maybe not MS but currently have a 58 that looks shameful compared with this 55. Also, not positive on this.....but I was under the assumption that with the pcgs secure holders a possible upgrade is basically impossible as they have a photo record of the coin. Not saying I believe this or not...or that its true just interested in others thoughts as I've heard it around many times.


    All in all, nice looking trade $! >>



    A secure plus can upgrade but they can tell if it has been messed with since the last grading.



    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's why I love this forum....you guys are great.

    Thanks so much for your astute and expert opinions.
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    the obverse called the shot here
    looks au55 to me in looking at all wear spots on the obverse
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,802 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like it is graded appropriately on its technical merits, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's a very appealing AU55. I can see why you thought it might grade higher.

    Some of the best deals in numismatics are had in the high AU range. You can get an awfully attractive coin at a fraction of the MS price if you pick & chose carefully.
  • DavideoDavideo Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the consensus that it is a strong 55. You could always send it to the bean factory.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Also, not positive on this.....but I was under the assumption that with the pcgs secure holders a possible upgrade is basically impossible as they have a photo record of the coin. Not saying I believe this or not...or that its true just interested in others thoughts as I've heard it around many times. >>



    A secure plus can upgrade but they can tell if it has been messed with since the last grading. >>



    It was send in for a regrade. SP or not, PCGS always knows what the prior grade was and a fresh grade review is always done. SP is just as likely to upgrade as non-SP.

    Too many folks are mistaken about SP and talk like they know it all.
    Lance.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree. AU58 with a light cleaning, AU55 'net'.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How can you not see the muted luster from circulation....look at the halo's around the starts in your
    I-phony. Pretty obvious that it has been circulated for a while.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Marks are not rub
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if the grade doesn't fit, crack it and send it in raw
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ...regardless, she is a looker!
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry but the first image looks to be a different coin worthy of the question. The second image really answers the question. It is a nice coin and falls in the AU spectrum- 55 seems reasonable.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it were my coin, I would have sent it in hoping for a 58. But a 55 is not unreasonable for that coin. I agree with others that the TrueView looks closer to a 58 and the iPhone pic looks closer to a 55.

    It's been twice graded as a 55. I would accept it as that. The upside for continued resubmissions is not great compared to the price.

    Bottom line, you have a great coin, conservatively graded.
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel it is AU58 - MS 61 (can't even tell the difference sometimes) that has been netted for the dip which is causing the dullish luster.

    In part due to discussion on these boards, and the efforts of CAC, I think mid to heavily dipped silver may struggle to get a grade above MS62 at PCGS going forward. Recent submissions showing effects of dip seem relegated to XF40, AU 53-55 and MS61-62 (magnet grades for dipping, imo). It's possible that the era of someone dipping their way to a mid MS grade may be ending (or at least will require more skill).

    If you want the MS61 grade for this coin, NGC is probably the best bet. They seem to focus their attention on details more than surfaces, especially in certain series. Not necessarily a bad call on their part, but it's increasingly noticeable.

    Matt
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU55 seems correct by current standards. The coin's luster has lost it's pop due to too much light circulation.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Bill Jones......AU55 is a good grade for this coin.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    it won't sticker at cac, that's my bet.

    i've seen them be tougher on T$1 lately from my own subs, so don't go by what you see in the market. there are a lot of coins that got graded during "easy" periods that would not grade the same today.
  • OGDanOGDan Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry GB, I know it's not what you expected but I think the graders got this one right.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,941 ✭✭✭✭
    It's a nice coin. Doesn't appear dipped at all - rather just the wispy effects of light circulation on the fields. The most valuable thing about this thread is the vast differences between a glamour shot and one that reflects reality in-hand, and the perils of relying on the former for arriving at a grade.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,941 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh, and no reason it shouldn't sticker at the au55 level.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the AU55 grade... the fields and lack of luster warrant the grade. Cheers, RickO
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    agreed with the others....appears to be a solid 55.

    Interesting how the iphone pics were so informative
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    30-40% field luster does not qualify for Uncirculated.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

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