Counterfeit 93-S Morgan in fake PCGS holder

coinhack · June 7, 2015 9:23PM

I reported this one to eBay last night just before I went to bed and it appears they have pulled it down already.

Way to go eBay!

Link to auction

BillJones · June 7, 2015 9:56PM

Good catch.

Unfortunately the Chinese are getting better and better at making counterfeits. I won't go into why on this one because I don't want to help them.

joebb21 · June 7, 2015 10:17PM

What am I missing here??? this coin looks like the real deal to me..

COALPORTER · June 7, 2015 10:17PM

Don't pat yourself on the back just yet.

"This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing"

Now it is relisted for $10,000 instead of $5,000.

COALPORTER · June 7, 2015 10:19PM

...look at "seller's other items".

ricko · June 7, 2015 10:20PM

I would appreciate a PM on what 'indicators' were picked up to determine it was a fake.... Thanks in advance.. Cheers, RickO

BillJones · June 7, 2015 10:32PM

I have to stand corrected on this one. Heritage last sold this piece in August 2010, and the pictures match with the certification serial number. I didn't think that the mint mark looked good on it, but I was wrong. I also thought that the "1" in the date was slightly to the right realitive to the dentile.

mbogoman · June 7, 2015 10:36PM

I think its the real deal, too, but I think its a hijacked account. The account has been dormant for over a year and the seller has no prior coin selling history.

There was only one possible counterfeit indicator that I could see and it was likely the lighting that caused it. In keeping with the "secrecy" of the thread, I won't detail it here but will respond to PMs if you're curious...

Edit: Well, since Bill has ID'ed the coin, I'll spill what I saw as questionable: I can't see the four little circles in the slab. I don't know what else to call them, but they are in all PCGS slabs and have something to do with sticking the two pieces of plastic together...

DennisH · June 7, 2015 10:41PM

Real coin. Sold twice by Heritage and the photos match.
As for the legitimacy of the eBay listing...

coinhack · June 7, 2015 11:26PM

Perhaps I was wrong. But there were several things that looked off.

The photos were clear but of such low quality that you couldn't verify any markers. The date and dentils are the only thing that you could really see and they did look right, so I checked Heritage. And the photo does look just like the coin that sold on Heritage in 2003. That isn't what I thought was wrong.

It is more the circumstances, I guess.

The seller has 9 feedbacks. None from coin dealers. He has no feedback from selling coins or anything else. The account has been inactive for more than a year.

The best part is the price. PCGS price guide says, $9,500. Gray sheet is $8,000. The seller was asking $5,000. The seller was asking 62.5% of wholesale for the key date Morgan Dollar.

If that coin is genuine and is not stolen or anything, then the real crime was me passing it up.

No, I don't think so.

P.S. It was pulled because of "an error in the listing". Then it was re-listed for $10,000 and then pulled again for "an error in the listing".

MsMorrisine · June 8, 2015 12:49AM

I'm going to point out that the title reads "fake holder."

I missed the auction as it is poofed, but you need to be careful calling out a holder as fake and then go no further in the discussion.

Just as the coin is up for debate so should the holder. Without debate and examination it could lead to confusion, especially for lurkers.

As for the circles, the mold for the plastic has circular inlets for the molten plastic. That's the circular marks being mentioned. Sometimes they are hard to see in photos, though. Also, I'd suggest studying the slab generations to see if the positions of these change.

coinhack · June 8, 2015 1:21AM

ms.Morrisine, you are right. I forgot to mention that in the post. But the one thing I did see that definitely looked wrong in the photo was the holder. Perhaps I was wrong but there are too many things to believe the sale is legit. If it turns out that it is then I blew it by not buying it at $5,000.

It looks like it has been re-listed for the third time. Now for $10,000 or best offer.

mbogoman · June 8, 2015 1:46AM

The coin and holder are legit - that has been proven by the corroborating refs to the photos in the Heritage archives. The sale, though, is VERY suspect. As mentioned before, the seller has no prior coin selling history and the account has been dormant for at least a year, likely more. This is the most common MO for the hijackers. Dormant account, no prior coin business, high value coin = HIJACKED. Yeah, you would get your money back eventually, but why cough up $5k or $10k on a lark?

If you want verification, ask the seller to post a picture of the coin with today's newspaper...no answer = no coin