Rosa Americana and my 1st Colonial

dadams

I purchased this back middle of April, but I wanted to post this here with a better picture than the sellers:



I am still learning about this piece and eventually will need to track down the Sydney Martin book to learn more. I am quickly learning how thin my reference library is!

Besides the overall pleasing look and remaining detail what particularly attracted my interest in this coin was the stop found after the date. As I understand the majority of Rosa Americana do not have the stop.

I found this similar example in an old Heritage Sale and I'm supposing my coin is of the same variety as both display the period after REX and the 3 in the date.

"Martin 2-F, W-1282, R.7. The very rare W-1282 variety of the 1723 Rosa Americana penny is recognized by the presence of a period after REX and another period after 1723."

lordmarcovan

I like it. I'm struck by how brassy looking some of these can be.

SaorAlba

<< <i>I like it. I'm struck by how brassy looking some of these can be. >>



They were referred to as being made from bath metal - whatever that is. Anyway they were copper, tin and a tiny amount of silver. At any rate they were small, inexpensive to produce and easy to foist off on the clueless colonials across the Atlantic.

Or so they thought. The colonials rightly thought they were being ripped off by cheap imitations and several colonies, notably Massachusetts Bay went so far as to ban their usage.



People today are not so aware of how much the subject of money contributed to the discontent that would manifest into the American Revolution. The British Crown oft neglected the monetary needs of the colonies, and when they did offer up a pittance it was usually substandard. When the colonies attempted to alleviate the dearth of money ie issuing paper money, the Crown objected...

BTW very nice example of a 280+ year old piece of American history.



Here is my own example of this penny, this one is actually a pattern that was created and somehow circulated - the noticeable difference is there are 24 pellets in the rose on the reverse instead of the usual 17.

OldEastside

Steve

johnny9434

<< <i>I purchased this back middle of April, but I wanted to post this here with a better picture than the sellers:



I am still learning about this piece and eventually will need to track down the Sydney Martin book to learn more. I am quickly learning how thin my reference library is!

Besides the overall pleasing look and remaining detail what particularly attracted my interest in this coin was the stop found after the date. As I understand the majority of Rosa Americana do not have the stop.

I found this similar example in an old Heritage Sale and I'm supposing my coin is of the same variety as both display the period after REX and the 3 in the date.

"Martin 2-F, W-1282, R.7. The very rare W-1282 variety of the 1723 Rosa Americana penny is recognized by the presence of a period after REX and another period after 1723." >>



nice

ricko

Very nice piece of numismatic history.... Cheers, RickO

Boosibri

Congrats

messydesk

Nice pick-up. I do quite like this design.

dadams

Thank you all for the kind comments. This one is certainly a keeper for me and I am looking forward to adding to my first colonial selection.

SaorAlba & messydesk thanks for showing yours!! Feel free to post them if you got them!

-Doug

msch1man

<< <i>As I understand the majority of Rosa Americana do not have the stop. >>



I'm not a Rosa Americana expert, but this may be quite an understatement. If this coin really is the W-1282 variety, it's listed in the Whitman book as URS-4...which (again, according to the Whitman book) means there's an estimated 5 to 8 known, which would be quite a coin for your first colonial. Regardless of variety, it looks real nice!

Have you had an expert look at it to confirm the variety?

dadams

msch1man,
I know nobody at this juncture of my collecting to ask and have not had an expert confirm the variety. Honestly, I had been somewhat hoping John Agre might make a comment.

SaorAlba

I am glad there are other collectors of these, they are easily affordable and collectable - they are rather overlooked as Colonial era coins, perhaps they don't garner the interests that the Pine Tree coinages get, nor does it seem many are even aware of them.

novacaesarea

Hi Dadams,

These are indeed very cool coins. IMO, very inexpensive relative to other Colonials considering their amazing history, they say Americana right on them and were made for the American colonies, the number of different types and varieties that can be affordably collected. You are right to seek out Syd Martin's book. It is really a masterpiece in that it is both definitive on the subject and just a really well laid out numismatic book in general that is very easy to use.

Before going into your coin, I suppose the one cool historical nugget that is worth knowing is that William Wood (the inventor of Bath Metal and the one who oversaw the innovative "drop press" striking (like a guillotine) and distribution of these coins) bribed George I's Mistress with over 10,000 pounds for the right to produce these coin and "foist" them on the public.The whole undertaking was a financial debacle and people like Jonathan Swift (author of Gulliver's Travels) decried the sister coinage (Hibernia's) from being foisted on the Irish people. Quite a story....

Anyway, I think you have a 1723 Pence Martin obverse 2.31 and reverse F.1 which is a slightly rarer R-4ish piece because of the stop. Notice that because it is 1723 as opposed to 1722 it has a crown over the Rose...making it a "Crowned Rose" piece rather than an "Uncrowned Rose". Next time you see a 1722 Pence, pick it up and turn it over.

I collect these, but it is really not my area of expertise. So I would appreciate anyone else's confirmation. But that is the way it looks to me.

Best,

novacaesarea

topstuf

Sure hope some of those were used to buy gunpowder for the colonists to KILL the people who debased their money.

Zoins

Nice Rosa Americanas!

Here is some history on the coins which were minted in by William Wood in London or Bristol. William owned a number of copper and tin mines which were used in the manufacture of his coins.

Melusine von der Schulenburg assisted him in getting his indentures to produce coins for America and Ireland. In addition to being King George I's mistress (and possible secret wife), she had a number of titles in Great Britain and Ireland:

Peerage of Great Britain

- Duchess of Kendal
- Countess of Feversham
- Baroness Glastonbury

Peerage of Ireland

- Duchess of Munster
- Marchioness of Dungannon
- Countess of Dungannon
- Baroness Dundalk

DIMEMAN

I am sure there other differences, but I noticed the difference in the top of post (on banner at bottom rev.) on the OP's coin and the other two examples shown here.

The OP's coin is shaped like a hook while the other two are balls.

Edited to add the position of the "R" to the cross is different on all three.

johnny9434

thats still a nice coin

dadams

Hi novacaesarea,

Thank you for the information!! I am now quite certain it is the Martin 2.31-F.1, W-1282 variety. In addition to the auction I linked to earlier I now found another sold in the recent EPN sale ( Lot 30335 )

I am more than pleased with my first Rosa Americana. Now, of course, the Rosa Americana Halfpenny and Twopence are on my want list as well as a Farting and Halfpenny to represent Woods' Hibernia coinage.

Thanks so much everyone.

Oh yea, DIMEMAN you got some good eyes!

keyman64

Congratulations.