Why collectors drink, version 17361
MadMarty
Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
The past couple days I had to do some work at our Cleveland Ohio office. Yesterday I had the chance (1st time in a very long time) to do some coin hunting.
1st stop, Emerald City Jewelers, they have a listing under coins but they only buy. But the people there were very nice!
2nd & 3rd stops, just a couple more local shops, not a lot to buy.
4th stop Carat Coin, great store and they were very nice. Finally got to buy some proof sets!! While talking to the owner about what I collect (brown envelope proof sets), he tells me I HAVE to visit Executive Coin Company in Stow OH, they have lots of proof sets. So I set off on the hour trip.
I get to Executive coin, ask if I can see proof sets, I get the typical what years, and I say 56-64s. They proceed to write me out a price list, all priced at about 20% over ask. I think to myself, OK if I'm picking, that is the price I have to pay. So I say, OK let's start with the 56s. He goes in the back and comes back with 5 sets, all plain old sets. I ask if there are more, he answers how many I want? I answer, all the ones I like.
Well, he says if you want 100 I'll get them, but you have to take them all. I explain that I want to pick the sets. (this is where it gets interesting)
He takes the sets, and says. Sorry, that's not how we work. You take what we give you or you get nothing. Needless to say, I got nothing.
So after 2 hours driving time, $2.50 in tolls, gas and fees for the cash station (yes, I brought lots of cash), I came up empty.
I would have thought at 20% over ask he would be happy to sell sets, I guess not.
I did find a nice 56 Type 1 set though and it was a nice day for a drive!!!
1st stop, Emerald City Jewelers, they have a listing under coins but they only buy. But the people there were very nice!
2nd & 3rd stops, just a couple more local shops, not a lot to buy.
4th stop Carat Coin, great store and they were very nice. Finally got to buy some proof sets!! While talking to the owner about what I collect (brown envelope proof sets), he tells me I HAVE to visit Executive Coin Company in Stow OH, they have lots of proof sets. So I set off on the hour trip.
I get to Executive coin, ask if I can see proof sets, I get the typical what years, and I say 56-64s. They proceed to write me out a price list, all priced at about 20% over ask. I think to myself, OK if I'm picking, that is the price I have to pay. So I say, OK let's start with the 56s. He goes in the back and comes back with 5 sets, all plain old sets. I ask if there are more, he answers how many I want? I answer, all the ones I like.
Well, he says if you want 100 I'll get them, but you have to take them all. I explain that I want to pick the sets. (this is where it gets interesting)
He takes the sets, and says. Sorry, that's not how we work. You take what we give you or you get nothing. Needless to say, I got nothing.
So after 2 hours driving time, $2.50 in tolls, gas and fees for the cash station (yes, I brought lots of cash), I came up empty.
I would have thought at 20% over ask he would be happy to sell sets, I guess not.
I did find a nice 56 Type 1 set though and it was a nice day for a drive!!!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
0
Comments
<< <i>You take what we give you or you get nothing. >>
I think I can predict where this business will be in a year or two.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>I would have thought at 20% over ask he would be happy to sell sets, I guess not. >>
I agree with you Marty
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>You take what we give you or you get nothing. >>
I think I can predict where this business will be in a year or two. >>
From what I have heard, they do a lot of business in bulk with the home shopping networks.
<< <i>Shame as I've bought quite a few coins from them through their website over the years and never had a problem. >>
I guess in the scheme of things 2-3 thousand in proof sets is nothing when you think of what the home shopping networks buy. All the other shops the people there were very nice, the manager at Executive was very cold. That is one place I will not ever return to.
If they are going to sell them all off bulk, why not take the 20% over ask on some of them? They are not going to get anywhere near that amount selling them bulk.
<< <i>
<< <i>You take what we give you or you get nothing. >>
I think I can predict where this business will be in a year or two. >>
They have a huge ebay presence.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You take what we give you or you get nothing. >>
I think I can predict where this business will be in a year or two. >>
They have a huge ebay presence. >>
They are also one of the largest wholesalers in the area. The stuff you see on eBay is a small fraction of their overall business.
-Paul
<< <i>Hey Marty! Long time, no see!
TD >>
HI TOM!!!! I did get to stop down at the shop 3-4 months ago.. Always happy to see you guys!!
next time you're in town and feel like driving an hour I can hook you up better than Executive. we do a lot of business with them(I can give a good reference about you that may help) so I suspect you got the results you got because they just didn't know who you are. I know at least two other shops where you should be able to view more with less time invested. also, if you call me and have an overnight stay or a few hours you can get a free meal at you restaurant of choice.
hey, what are friends for??!!??
BTW, we'd sell you all the Proof/Mint Sets you want at bid, even if we didn't know you. you just went to the wrong place.
I think that in spite of Executive's crummy attitude, they will be around for years to come....were they so afraid of being cherry picked
they wouldn't sell you sets of your choice at what was probably WAY over their buy prices??
not even close and sort of irresponsible to say as much based on what you know(this thread).
<< <i>The past couple days I had to do some work at our Cleveland Ohio office. Yesterday I had the chance (1st time in a very long time) to do some coin hunting.
1st stop, Emerald City Jewelers, they have a listing under coins but they only buy. But the people there were very nice!
2nd & 3rd stops, just a couple more local shops, not a lot to buy.
4th stop Carat Coin, great store and they were very nice. Finally got to buy some proof sets!! While talking to the owner about what I collect (brown envelope proof sets), he tells me I HAVE to visit Executive Coin Company in Stow OH, they have lots of proof sets. So I set off on the hour trip.
I get to Executive coin, ask if I can see proof sets, I get the typical what years, and I say 56-64s. They proceed to write me out a price list, all priced at about 20% over ask. I think to myself, OK if I'm picking, that is the price I have to pay. So I say, OK let's start with the 56s. He goes in the back and comes back with 5 sets, all plain old sets. I ask if there are more, he answers how many I want? I answer, all the ones I like.
Well, he says if you want 100 I'll get them, but you have to take them all. I explain that I want to pick the sets. (this is where it gets interesting)
He takes the sets, and says. Sorry, that's not how we work. You take what we give you or you get nothing. Needless to say, I got nothing.
So after 2 hours driving time, $2.50 in tolls, gas and fees for the cash station (yes, I brought lots of cash), I came up empty.
I would have thought at 20% over ask he would be happy to sell sets, I guess not.
I did find a nice 56 Type 1 set though and it was a nice day for a drive!!! >>
Even at 100% over ask, how much would 1 or 2 sets be? BTW can you explain the cash fee thingy?
<< <i>The dealer has clearly had bad experiences with cherry-pickers. I don't blame him for having that attitude/policy. >>
Coin collecting is cherry picking. You try and pick the best coin for what you can afford. Most collectors will not buy things sight unseen. Now if he had them marked 50% of bid, sure, buy them all.
<< <i>
So after 2 hours driving time, $2.50 in tolls, gas and fees for the cash station (yes, I brought lots of cash), I came up empty.
I would have thought at 20% over ask he would be happy to sell sets, I guess not.
I did find a nice 56 Type 1 set though and it was a nice day for a drive!!! >>
Even at 100% over ask, how much would 1 or 2 sets be? BTW can you explain the cash fee thingy? >>
I had to get cash from a bank cash station that wasn't my bank. So there was a fee. As for 1 or 2 sets, those of you know when I go picking I don't stop at 1 or 2 sets!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>The dealer has clearly had bad experiences with cherry-pickers. I don't blame him for having that attitude/policy. >>
Coin collecting is cherry picking. You try and pick the best coin for what you can afford. Most collectors will not buy things sight unseen. Now if he had them marked 50% of bid, sure, buy them all. >>
True, but we are talking about near generic proof sets here. These are items that become more and more shopworn and less desirable each time they are handled.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Marty! Long time, no see!
TD >>
HI TOM!!!! I did get to stop down at the shop 3-4 months ago.. Always happy to see you guys!! >>
Did they treat you right? I am out in Colorado now.
Glad to see you back, Cheers.
<< <i>
<< <i>You take what we give you or you get nothing. >>
I think I can predict where this business will be in a year or two. >>
These guys have a huge and very successful eBay presence. I do not think store walk-ins is where their bread is buttered. They'll probably be just fine.
<< <i>The manager at Executive was very cold. >>
I bet the following below would have warmed him up and changed your entire experience....
My YouTube Channel
It is often best to call ahead to see if dealer locations are true retail shops to service walk-in traffic, or just offices to conduct their online/wholesale business.
I'm sure it is not profitable or worthwhile for their type of setup to sell Proof Sets one at a time, especially in a cherrypicking type of situation.
I will certainly always take advantage of an opportunity to handpick set for cherries if a dealer has the willingness/time for it, but I also respect those who wish to conduct easy, bulk business as well.
I would certainly give them a thumbs up for anyone considering doing business with them.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>If a stranger walked into my business and wanted to cherry my inventory, why, I'd just sit him down and let him have all my best stuff, even if it took hours and hours for him to find the pieces he wanted. >>
<< <i>Shame as I've bought quite a few coins from them through their website over the years and never had a problem. >>
Same here.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>If a stranger walked into my business and wanted to cherry my inventory, why, I'd just sit him down and let him have all my best stuff, even if it took hours and hours for him to find the pieces he wanted. >>
What, no Starbucks too? Dealers are so inhospitable.
<< <i>If a stranger walked into my business and wanted to cherry my inventory, why, I'd just sit him down and let him have all my best stuff, even if it took hours and hours for him to find the pieces he wanted. >>
So how do you normally do it? Only sell to those who don't want to see what you are selling first? This logic is flawed. Who cares if someone picks out all your best coins and buys them? Are you not the one setting the price?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The dealer has clearly had bad experiences with cherry-pickers. I don't blame him for having that attitude/policy. >>
Coin collecting is cherry picking. You try and pick the best coin for what you can afford. Most collectors will not buy things sight unseen. Now if he had them marked 50% of bid, sure, buy them all. >>
True, but we are talking about near generic proof sets here. These are items that become more and more shopworn and less desirable each time they are handled. >>
I will add to that! If I was a dealer of Mint and Proof Sets the last thing I would want to see coming is a cherry picker. Those older original sets do well if their packaging is in good shape...no matter how careful one is everytime it is looked at the packaging would become more worn!
I have no problem with cherry pickers looking through my coins and I'm happy if they find something...but stuff in mint packaging is a whole different animal!
A search of this store's reviews on Google indicates I was not alone. The owner just isn't good at dealing with customers (and his business LONG predates eBay, so that isn't an explanation).
It's not so much a "fear" of being cherry picked, it's a matter of time vs money. If the OP were to pick through 100+ sets to find a few he wanted, that would probably take an hour or so. The dealer would have to stand watch (or have an employee stand watch), to make sure there's no funny business going on with his stock.
Best case scenario the OP finds a few sets he likes, pays bid+20% and goes on his way. The dealer ends up with what, $10-20 extra in his pocket? Compared to punting out a large lot at wholesale for not much less, it isn't worth the time.
Worst case scenario, this unknown (to this dealer) collector mishandles some sets and then doesn't buy anything at all.
In short, there is no upside for the dealer to allow for cherry picking in this case. If you have rapport with the dealer and have done business before, MAYBE then he'd allow it out of courtesy.
<< <i>Having worn the collector hat for a long time, to wearing a dealer hat now, I've come to realize it's a fine balance between bending over backward to accommodate clients and spending too much time for too little return.
It's not so much a "fear" of being cherry picked, it's a matter of time vs money. If the OP were to pick through 100+ sets to find a few he wanted, that would probably take an hour or so. The dealer would have to stand watch (or have an employee stand watch), to make sure there's no funny business going on with his stock.
Best case scenario the OP finds a few sets he likes, pays bid+20% and goes on his way. The dealer ends up with what, $10-20 extra in his pocket? Compared to punting out a large lot at wholesale for not much less, it isn't worth the time.
Worst case scenario, this unknown (to this dealer) collector mishandles some sets and then doesn't buy anything at all.
In short, there is no upside for the dealer to allow for cherry picking in this case. If you have rapport with the dealer and have done business before, MAYBE then he'd allow it out of courtesy. >>
I was about to reply but the post above does a very nice job of concisely summing up what I was about to say. It's not about not letting someone see what they are buying; that is patently silly.
For instance, we have a few of each date proof sets that OTC buyers may peruse, but I'm not pulling out the entire back room inventory and babysit while they spend hours only to say there's nothing they want...or what's worse, find like 2 sets after all that time and then say "let's talk quantity discount". IN OP's case he was offered a few to peruse as a courtesy, but allowing him to go through what could amount to hundreds of sets to perhaps buy one or two (or none) would be an exercise in futility and wasted time for the dealer...especially considering he can make a phone call and sell them all in one clip for essentially the same money with no hassle.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Who's buying proof sets bulk, sight unseen, at 20% over ask? Boy do I have a deal for them!
May be enlightening...
I really believe the average dealer does not want to sell to those who know what they are doing, and especially to those who know more about it than they do. Say what you want, they can't deal with the possibility of someone ripping them back.
I know of such a dealer who started pulling coins back if I showed interest in them. One time I really played this Trade dollar up, studying it, acting like I was on my iPhone doing research, and then I offered him 100 bucks more than he had on the flip. I knew he was going to say "not for sale" after all that. This guy thought I (now he) found a treasure. 2 months later. while going through his town, I stop and ask him about the Trade dollar. He condescendingly says, I thought you knew what you were doing. It came back counterfeit!
I still chuckle to this day.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The dealer has clearly had bad experiences with cherry-pickers. I don't blame him for having that attitude/policy. >>
Coin collecting is cherry picking. You try and pick the best coin for what you can afford. Most collectors will not buy things sight unseen. Now if he had them marked 50% of bid, sure, buy them all. >>
True, but we are talking about near generic proof sets here. These are items that become more and more shopworn and less desirable each time they are handled. >>
I will add to that! If I was a dealer of Mint and Proof Sets the last thing I would want to see coming is a cherry picker. Those older original sets do well if their packaging is in good shape...no matter how careful one is everytime it is looked at the packaging would become more worn!
I have no problem with cherry pickers looking through my coins and I'm happy if they find something...but stuff in mint packaging is a whole different animal! >>
Therein lies the problem, and I can see both sides -- if I sell in bulk then I don't want to spend a ton of time for someone to rip through my inventory and cherrypick the cameos, accented hairs, superbirds, you name it; if I'm the collector buyer though, no, not all vintage proof sets are created equal. If I'm after a proof set I don't want the cent littered with rotty spots -- though I guess I'd accept it if I saw the half was a beautiful, two-sided BW DCAM.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>I really believe the average dealer does not want to sell to those who know what they are doing, and especially to those who know more about it than they do. Say what you want, they can't deal with the possibility of someone ripping them back.
I know of such a dealer who started pulling coins back if I showed interest in them. One time I really played this Trade dollar up, studying it, acting like I was on my iPhone doing research, and then I offered him 100 bucks more than he had on the flip. I knew he was going to say "not for sale" after all that. This guy thought I (now he) found a treasure. 2 months later. while going through his town, I stop and ask him about the Trade dollar. He condescendingly says, I thought you knew what you were doing. It came back counterfeit!
I still chuckle to this day. >>
But the above-average dealer wants an educated customer and enjoys knowing that such a customer appreciates the dealer and the coins that the dealer carries.
Tom
Asks me what I'm doing.
I told him I'm deciding on which ones I want to buy.
" we decide what our customers buy" was what I was told.
I couldn't slide out of there fast enough.
<< <i>Looks like you are about to get a response.
ExecutiveCoin - Have you seen this man?
<< <i>But the above-average dealer wants an educated customer and enjoys knowing that such a customer appreciates the dealer and the coins that the dealer carries. >>
Yes. Now on the other side, my favorite dealer who does not play these games, when I end up with a coin that greatly exceeds what I thought when I bought it, (not often but a plus can be thousands on a grade), I throw him a bone back the next time we meet.