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Why collectors drink, version 17361

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MadMarty,

    We've known each other for years and have done a lot of business together. Looking back at the title of this thread, do you consider yourself a collector?

    I always considered you a vest pocket dealer who was buying stuff to resell it at a profit. I had no problem with that, because we were making a profit on the stuff we sold to you.

    However, I do not think that, in the incident related, you qualified as a collector.

    What do you think?

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dave was saving Marty the trouble..

    "Sorry mister, don't be mad, but there are no finds there to be had.

    We picked 'em clean, friends searched the rest,

    there aren't any more of the best.

    So save your time, and we'll save ours

    From NGC you'll get no stars

    From PCGS you'll get no cams

    All you'll get is damn, Damn, DAMNS

    They've all been searched, so many times

    That we used our time to make these rhymes"


    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • LotsoLuckLotsoLuck Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭
    100
  • winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    This business will be gone, gone, gone.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MadMarty manned up. Executive manned up. Time to move on…………..mark
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>MadMarty,

    We've known each other for years and have done a lot of business together. Looking back at the title of this thread, do you consider yourself a collector?

    I always considered you a vest pocket dealer who was buying stuff to resell it at a profit. I had no problem with that, because we were making a profit on the stuff we sold to you.

    However, I do not think that, in the incident related, you qualified as a collector.

    What do you think?

    TD >>



    Is it really relevant if he's a collector or a dealer? Either way he's a customer who is spending money with the dealer.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I pay good money to get on this site.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We all know MadMarty is aces and I have no reason to doubt ExecutiveCoin. Going throiugh mint
    and proof sets is a lot of fun and can be rewarding for both parties; buyer and seller. I always try
    to leave the rejected sets in better shape than I found them and take the tattered packaging and
    even sets with no packaging. If I can't buy a lot of sets then I just give up but it's usually not a
    problem to buy 10 or 20% of the mint sets and 5 or 10% of proof sets. If you leave them nice neat
    and organized stock some dealers will sell at bid but I'll pay more anyway if the sets are nice and
    original and there are a few Gems (and varieties). Now days a lot more of these groupings will be
    picked over and some can be picked clean (there's no reason to believe this applies to the stock in
    question), but I can find a few things even in sets that are picked clean because there are a few things
    other people miss or don't look for at all.

    It's always been tougher picking proof sets because these have always been looked at a little more
    closely by more people. It's hardly unusual to look at a few sets and have to give up because they've
    already been cherried one too many times. If a dealer knows I won't be buying sets it's nice to know
    in advance.

    I know the frustration of driving great distances and being shut down for one reason or another and
    anyone can understand a dealer not wanting to haul large amounts of stock back and forth to storage.
    Smoetimes it all works out and sometimes it doesn't.

    Tempus fugit.
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I feel this dealer attitude of "We dont want to waste our time" (when they'll most likely otherwise be sitting on their stool for a couple hours) is bad business and bad customer service. >>



    Sorry, but you apparently don't know Dave and the guys at Executive very well. They are far from "sitting on the stool" dealers. They are some of the hardest working guys in the business and do much more volume than most.

    Whether you agree with their actions or not, I wouldn't assume they had nothing better to do than sit on their stool.

    Quite frankly, time-value-of-money means a lot in this, or any business. If I have to sit and babysit a customer for an hour to buy a $15-20 set, I've just lost money after all expenses and my time is factored. One tries to set a business up to both cater to the customer and be efficient with one's time.

    This is why we have a office setup (not shop) with an online webstore that allows for easy browsing.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's good, for a change, to see a dealer/buyer interaction from bothperspectives. Even better to compare my thoughts/feelings after reading MadMarty's first post with how they changed after reading the dealer's considered reply. Analyzing one's assumptions and identifying the mental shortcuts we all take when digesting a story is time well spent. And Baley's poem is icing on the cake! nicely done!
  • scotty1419scotty1419 Posts: 928 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I feel this dealer attitude of "We dont want to waste our time" (when they'll most likely otherwise be sitting on their stool for a couple hours) is bad business and bad customer service. >>



    Sorry, but you apparently don't know Dave and the guys at Executive very well. They are far from "sitting on the stool" dealers. They are some of the hardest working guys in the business and do much more volume than most.

    Whether you agree with their actions or not, I wouldn't assume they had nothing better to do than sit on their stool.

    Quite frankly, time-value-of-money means a lot in this, or any business. If I have to sit and babysit a customer for an hour to buy a $15-20 set, I've just lost money after all expenses and my time is factored. One tries to set a business up to both cater to the customer and be efficient with one's time.

    This is why we have a office setup (not shop) with an online webstore that allows for easy browsing. >>




    Given your logic, what would be the shop's loss to let the guy sit in a corner and sort through their sets while they attend to other business?? All grandstanding and nuancing aside, it seems like bad customer service and bad business to handle it like they did. So he says he's looking for proof sets. They say "we've already vetted them for rarities". What if he responded "I'd like to see them anyways?" They basically said we dont care to show product. If they had said "Well we looked through them but feel free" - and placed a big box in the corner with a cozy Mad Marty stool for the afternoon what would be the harm? He would have bought some and given them a nice mention here, or he wouldn't have found anything and talked up how obliging and helpful Executive was.

    Were they MORE AFRAID he'd actually find something they missed??
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After all the, sometimes funny, sometimes whiny and stupid, "why coin dealers drink" threads, I think it is somewhat obvious that this was meant to have a funny tone and a view from the other side of the counter.
    If MM wasn't going into it asking for wholesale prices and dealer treatment, then he is going into it from the collector side of the counter. After all, collectors can cherrypick as well and be picky.

    Going by the replies, it's funny to see the dealers gang up on MM and chastise him for what he wrote, and how. Circling the wagons at its best.

    I've seen MM go through sets. He is quick and efficient and doesn't damage them (that I saw). That's probably offputting to some dealers who like to think that they are so much smarter/better than their customers. Seeing someone go through like that, and possibly pick things out, is likely to make those dealers think they missed something and lost huge profits....even if they already went through them themselves.

    The tone that TECC gave in their posts....well, I'll be nice and not say what I think of that tone. Not a fan.

    The "calling out" of MM by a few forum members, even if "not a dealer but working in a store"......stupid. As mentioned, there are always at least 2 sides to a story (which, obviously, someone read the thread originally and quickly ran off to TECC saying "hurry! hurry! they are talking about you!!!!!"), but if one wasn't there, then one shouldn't try to tell one of the participants that were how wrong they are. My own comments in this post are directly related to how their post presented them, not how the original interaction went.

    I don't think MM was negative in his OP but more of a tale/story of his day. To have someone say "just be honest", etc, tells me that they took it negatively and maybe need to rethink things....maybe there are reasons they see it as negative when it didn't come across to some others that way...???

    I've seen TECC on ebay, never been to their store or the area. I've debated the ebay bit sometimes. From their own posts here...not a fan.

    Also sad that some members feel the need to jump on the "nitpick and attack MM" bandwagon. Dealers and shopworkers all.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,429 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting thread...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Madmarty-

    Have you ever seen their world class inventory of modern top pop proofs? They have picked those sets clean long ago!! If you'd have checked their website you probably would have realized they were probably poor picking targets. They are shrewd business people and know very well what they have. I have been there numerous times over the years and rate them as a first class operation. No nonsense people who sell top quality material. Fast and friendly service is all I have rec'd over the years.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think I've been called out.image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rubber Chicken

    And you thought dealers had it bad ?
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I feel this dealer attitude of "We dont want to waste our time" (when they'll most likely otherwise be sitting on their stool for a couple hours) is bad business and bad customer service. >>



    Sorry, but you apparently don't know Dave and the guys at Executive very well. They are far from "sitting on the stool" dealers. They are some of the hardest working guys in the business and do much more volume than most.

    Whether you agree with their actions or not, I wouldn't assume they had nothing better to do than sit on their stool.

    Quite frankly, time-value-of-money means a lot in this, or any business. If I have to sit and babysit a customer for an hour to buy a $15-20 set, I've just lost money after all expenses and my time is factored. One tries to set a business up to both cater to the customer and be efficient with one's time.

    This is why we have a office setup (not shop) with an online webstore that allows for easy browsing. >>




    Given your logic, what would be the shop's loss to let the guy sit in a corner and sort through their sets while they attend to other business?? All grandstanding and nuancing aside, it seems like bad customer service and bad business to handle it like they did. So he says he's looking for proof sets. They say "we've already vetted them for rarities". What if he responded "I'd like to see them anyways?" They basically said we dont care to show product. If they had said "Well we looked through them but feel free" - and placed a big box in the corner with a cozy Mad Marty stool for the afternoon what would be the harm? He would have bought some and given them a nice mention here, or he wouldn't have found anything and talked up how obliging and helpful Executive was.

    Were they MORE AFRAID he'd actually find something they missed?? >>




    You were making the assumption that they had nothing better to do than just sit on their stools and watch. Leaving someone alone to sit with inventory assumes that person is trustworthy. While MM is known and trustworthy, I won't just leave anyone alone with inventory. It is amazing and unfortunate how much theft can result from leaving people unattended with coins.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Marty heard the price and asked to look anyway. The dealer pegged him as a cherrypicker and figured the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. That's OK (both sides). However, there are better ways for the dealer to end this conversation. He could have made a friend with two extra sentences.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What MadMarty said would not have stopped me from going to Executive Coin. What Executive Coin said would stop me from going to Executive Coin. Calling customers dishonest simply because they want to look at your coins and pick out the best ones they can find? When I go buy steaks I pick the best ones to my eye. Am I dishonest then? Could you imagine a meat department telling you that you will only get the ones they pick out? Whatever. >>



    image To be kind, that's a silly analogy. Go into the meat department and demand that you be able to look through 300 steaks for 2 hours until you find the one you want, maybe...and see how far you get.
    You get to look through the steaks they put out for sale, not the stuff in the back.

    By the same token your local bank should gladly let you stand at the teller window for hours or go into the vault and sit on a chair while you go through all their notes so you can pick out stars, radars, and errors.

    I honestly can't believe how some here continue to have absolutely ZERO clue about the concept that someone else's time has value.

    Oh, and EC was implying dishonesty because he said he had an order for pennies rather than admitting he just wanted to cherrypick sets. Playing games usually isn't conducive to getting one's way.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,386 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>MadMarty has shared a very interesting experience and made us all more informed b/c of it. I enjoyed reading it. If dealers don't want to sell---it's their loss, as some are more concerned about volume and the almighty buck and don't care for the small time collector. Move on to others that appreciate your business more. This was a good thread and I found no harm in it. >>



    Well said!
    image
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most B & M's are paying 20-35% back of bid. I do think that they can figure out a way to let pickers view these without screwing up the detail.

    If the clerk at the counter had asked the correct questions first maybe this wouldn't have been a bad experience. If the shop is worried about packaging..don't they know enough customers who could give them packaging?

    In 2015 customers should tighten up their buying protocols. Most shops certainly have.
    Have a nice day
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Don't get me wrong!! The dealer did nothing wrong!!! Yes I was sharing my day of coin shopping in Cleveland, and no more.

    All and all, it's a very nice store, big and well lit. I'm sure they will be around for a long time. I left, shook my head and thought lesson learned.
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Oscar Wilde once said:

    "The only thing worse than coin shopping in Cleveland is not coin shopping in Cleveland!"
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Wow, thought I replied to this thread!! Dave did nothing wrong. This was just telling a story how my day went. I left, shook my head and marked it off my list. Headed back to the airport. I will admit, it was a great looking store, big and bright. Every B&M store has the right to refuse service to anyone. As someone who has visited many dealers in many areas, I have no problem with this.

    and yes, it was kinda a spoof on why dealers drink!! why should the dealers have all the fun!!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glad to see you posting again Marty and that you still are on the hunt (just stay away from the West Coast and poaching my turf).

    Some dealers allow collectors to look through their inventory while some do not. No biggie either way. If you find a dealer who lets you look at his inventory, be very grateful. Treat him well. do not haggle on the price he asks and be a paying customer. If you develop a good relationship with him you will benefit in the future.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had a similar experience in Amarillo. Only one coin shop in town on 6th street. I'm dealing withthe son and got along fine until the dad comes back from lunch.

    Asks me what I'm doing.
    I told him I'm deciding on which ones I want to buy.

    " we decide what our customers buy" was what I was told.

    I couldn't slide out of there fast enough. >>



    I would have first laughed out loud, and been very sure to inform them on my way to the egress I'd spread the "bad word" far and wide, after an experience like that.

    Might just spill their ashtray on the floor on the way out, too. image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Collectors can be cherrypickers when it is a Win-Win situation. When I was at Harlan Berk we had a nice guy that was a regular who collected large cents. He was a collector, not a dealer.

    I used to save all of the unattributed large cents that came in and whenever he stopped by just hand him the bag. Next time he came in he would hand me a box or envelope with each coin attributed and EAC graded and in a separate envelope have the ones he wanted to buy. We would agree on a price and he would write a check.

    One time he came in and said "Do you have any idea what was in that last envelope???" I said, quite honestly, "No," and he pulled out an AG-3 coin and paid us $1,000 for it.

    Unfortunately he passed away recently. I understand that they will be selling his collection eventually after the estate is settled.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I had a similar experience in Amarillo. Only one coin shop in town on 6th street. I'm dealing withthe son and got along fine until the dad comes back from lunch.

    Asks me what I'm doing.
    I told him I'm deciding on which ones I want to buy.

    " we decide what our customers buy" was what I was told.

    I couldn't slide out of there fast enough. >>



    I would have first laughed out loud, and been very sure to inform them on my way to the egress I'd spread the "bad word" far and wide, after an experience like that.

    Might just spill their ashtray on the floor on the way out, too. image >>



    OK,
    I've got to tell the rest of the story. This was many years ago. Saints were $600± and pop comes back from lunch and big times me. "I just bought 300 Saints". " Where you from?" "Do you know HRH?"

    I was not impressed with the 300 Saints. Granted it was a buck eighty but other peoples money does not impress me.
    OK, I tell him I'm from LA. That seemed to trigger an alarm, lol.

    Do you know HRH? I told him I was intrduced to him at Long Beach. Well hell HRH has had more introductions that Madonnas had boyfriends so what's the big deal?

    Well the guy goes off on me and must think I'm HRH's cousin or something because he tells me a story about how he handed an UNC roll of buffs to HRH and HRH picked him. Internally I'm roflmao but the face is playing perfect poker . "He did? Well I'll be?

    About then it was time to get out of Dodge. He did sell me a few sets howeverimage
    Have a nice day
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the rest of the story, streeter! image

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