<< <i>As far as public outcry in regard to manipulating equipment, I can't remember anything like this before. Brady hasn't helped his cause at all by what he has said to date, but gamesmanship has been around since the first game, and it is part of every sports team and every player looking for a personal or collective edge. The idea that Brady and the Pats are cheaters and everyone else isn't is pretty laughable.
Baseball teams manipulate the playing surface (such as length of grass) based on the strengths of their teams.
In hockey, many players use illegal equipment such as sticks with illegal curves or goalies with oversize pads. Pucks react differently based on whether the are cold or warm, and teams sometimes prefer bouncier pucks if the team is less skilled.
The problem is they got caught at the wrong time and at the wrong stage. All casual fans and people who've never played a sport or understood sports are acting like this is the end of the world, which isn't surprising considering how the media is spoon feeding the masses this righteous indignation.
-Nathanael >>
This is my opinion, only much, much, MUCH better written!
I love all the "unbiased" Pats fans who accuse everyone else of being "biased" if they don't think their way. Comments like "the league is out to get us" just makes you sound like a zealous Pats fan. It's ludicrous. It is a league rule that you MUST cooperate in a league investigation. This is NOT optional. They violated this. Brady violated this. The organization is responsible for their employees actions. Brady wouldn't give up his cell phone to investigators. Violation. Ask Marion Jones when she went to jail. It wasn't for steroid use, it was for LYING to investigators.
What comes around goes around! They have been skirting the system for years and not being accountable for it at all. This is another example of what's important the Patriots franchise! Winning at all costs. Hope they finish last this season.
<< <i>wow alot of people in glass houses throwing stones at New England. If you think that your favorite sports team has not cheated or bent the rules, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
<< wow alot of people in glass houses throwing stones at New England. If you think that your favorite sports team has not cheated or bent the rules, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
Found these stats on the internet. I have not verified them, but if accurate it paints a very disturbing picture indeed:
In the NFL, if you win the turnover battle then you win 78% of the time. The rule change that allowed for this type of cheating started in 2007.
2000-2006 Tom Brady fumbled 2.66 Times per Year 2007-2014 Tom Brady fumbled only 1.28 Times per Year.
=48% reduction in fumbles.
In the NFL, teams historically average 1 fumble per every 36-56 plays. The Patriots were right in the middle at once every 46 plays. But then in 2007-2014, the Patriots TEAM stats improved to 1 fumble every 74 plays. A complete statistical outlier where the 2nd best fumbling team was not even close to the staggeringly low fumbling rates of the Pats. Belichick was the coach for all 14 years and has “benched” fumblers throughout his entire career. That didn’t change in 2007.
How exactly can manipulating one of the most important statistics in the game (turnovers) not be a “big deal”?
Blame it on "haters" all you want, but how did this not significantly affect the integrity of the game?
Why isn't Belichick suspended as well? When the NFL lowered the boom on the Saints for Bountygate, they suspended Sean Payton for an entire season, with Goodell saying "ignorance is no excuse" when it comes to the head coach.
<< <i>Found these stats on the internet. I have not verified them, but if accurate it paints a very disturbing picture indeed:
In the NFL, if you win the turnover battle then you win 78% of the time. The rule change that allowed for this type of cheating started in 2007.
2000-2006 Tom Brady fumbled 2.66 Times per Year 2007-2014 Tom Brady fumbled only 1.28 Times per Year.
=48% reduction in fumbles.
In the NFL, teams historically average 1 fumble per every 36-56 plays. The Patriots were right in the middle at once every 46 plays. But then in 2007-2014, the Patriots TEAM stats improved to 1 fumble every 74 plays. A complete statistical outlier where the 2nd best fumbling team was not even close to the staggeringly low fumbling rates of the Pats. Belichick was the coach for all 14 years and has “benched” fumblers throughout his entire career. That didn’t change in 2007.
How exactly can manipulating one of the most important statistics in the game (turnovers) not be a “big deal”?
Blame it on "haters" all you want, but how did this not significantly affect the integrity of the game? >>
My buddies and I had this argument before. The stats are interesting but only relevant if the pressure in the balls is changed after they are submitted to the officials. If they submit them at the lowest level and the refs approve the balks for play then I don't blame the pats for doing anything wrong. It's only wrong if they change the pressure after they are checked by the officials.
not going to even bother reading all the posts but will post my 2 cents anyway
refs did not do their job. plain and simple. in this game , in any game around the nfl. if you are going to single out brady , single out every quarterback in the league. they all want the ball the way they like it. they tell their guys get the ball as close to that as where you can. if the refs don't check or bother to do their job, the limits will be pushed. for brady, for rogers , for luck , for anyone until the refs do their job and make the balls correct and tell them to stop pushing the limits.
this wells report was made for the nfl, it was not made to prove defence for the patriots. where is it noted that 4 of the colts balls where underinflated also? luck should be suspended and the colts fined also.
and as far as the gifts, I am pretty sure it is common practice for the equipment guys to get gifts from many players. we are all collectors, where does have the game used crap come from in auction houses? from equipment managers, execs and former players who got it from friends.
did brady have a clue , of course, he said I like the ball soft and do whatever you can to get it as soft as possible until someone tells you otherwise. the league has rules and an established process. the refs don't follow the process, that is their fault. it is the refs responsibility to get the balls right
if the umps call strikes for greg maddux that are 6 inches off the plate , should he stop throwing it there? he didn't so he should be banned for life and not be allowed in the hof since he cheated by throwing the ball off the plate and having it be a strike because the umps didn't do it for everyone else and they didn't stop him.
if we want to talk integrity of the game that is fine but that is not what this is about. when a team has stickum on the sidelines in their towels and gets caught in the act and gets a 20k fine that doesn't seem like anyone was worried about integrity. that is probably more of an advantage than any pressure in the football and was the team clearly cheating.
<< <i>CNBC just reported that Brady NFL merchandise sales have doubled since the suspension. His jersey leads all players in sales. >>
Now he has street cred, LOL.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
So I guess that makes the Pats (sorry my beloved Bostonian wife; nearing tenth anniversary BTW!) the 2014 Super Bowl Champions* ? And Brady is now a four* time champ (2001, 2003, 2004, 2014*)?
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
The argument about letting the league provide the balls is moot. The rule in question allows quarterbacks for visiting teams to supply their own footballs broken in the way the quarterback wants them. Both Brady AND Peyton Manning were the big names behind this push. The fact the rule is for visiting teams indicates that home teams were always able to supply balls broken in for their QB. No matter who supplies the balls (league or teams), the balls must be measured by the referee before the game.
Where Deflategate is allowed to happen is the chain of custody after the balls are gauge checked. From reading the report, it is apparent league norms for a home team employee to be in custody of the balls, but usually there is always an official present. But in New England, there is opportunity, based on room configuration, for someone to be in one room with the ball bags and not be in sight of the officials or anyone else. Because of all the activity in the room before the AFC Champ game, the deflator did not have a chance, hence the unaccompanied trip to the men's room. You want to solve the issue - have an official be in visual contact with the balls from gauge check to field and then have the league supply ball boys - because the ball boys could just as easily sleight of hand manipulate the balls.
BTW - Aaron Rodgers is on record as saying he likes his footballs overinflated. So there is no unequivocal evidence that supports an underinflated football makes Brady superhuman. It's a gamesmanship move.
Full disclosure - I am a Pats fan. While I express doubt due to no smoking gun, I also believe if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc. Something fishy happened, and there should be some payment. Gaylord Perry or George Brett? I am more inclined to believe George Brett, although I think a better analogy is NASCAR. Find me a crew chief who isn't always trying to push the rules. ESPN Sports Science even did a bit shortly after this broke back in January that a deflated ball actually flies slower than properly inflated. So maybe any advantage created is placebo in nature.
But again - something against the rules happened. Brady does not look good in the report. But then neither does the league. If the Colts raised the issue before the game, why didn't the league mandate closer inspection of the balls? Why risk having it blow up like this when a stern "we know what you may be doing" lecture and one extra step (having someone from the league in visual contact with the balls from gauge to field) would have completely avoided Deflategate and perhaps ended the practice for good (Brady et al knowing the league is on to them).
Suspend Brady 2 games. Four games just seems way too excessive.
Collecting Topps Baseball: 1966-present base sets Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
Out of all the messages from Patriots fans, I really appreciate this take more than any other to date. Well done.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Dave: With regards to your fumble question, check out this week's MMQB column here. You'll note that the Pats ball boys don't go on road games, and therefore couldn't be deflating at 50% of the Pats games... so why didn't they fumble on the road either?
Also there is a telling graph - with Brady's home and away splits - which seem to be exactly the same. How could this be, if deflation was a routine occurrence (at home) and makes such a big difference?
Rhetorical questions to be sure, but valid logic flags, IMHO.
dave and mike...regarding whether their own ball boys go on the road or not...on the road, I'm pretty sure that they do get to have their own (15-or 20) balls that are to the visiting qbs liking, correct? that rule put in place so the home team doesn't give them a back of balls set at max psi which used to be the problem and why this rule has been instituted in the first place
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
Meanwhile... A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time.
<< <i>Meanwhile... A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls?
Collecting Topps Baseball: 1966-present base sets Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
<< <i>Meanwhile... A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls? >>
This story is not about breaking the rules one time. The Pats get caught every time but they keep doing the same thing over and over and over...That's the definition of stupidity.
did A.J. Feeley also see them recording on the sidelines...lol.. next thing you know he'll say he saw Tom Brady push a little old lady down and punch a baby. haters are gonna hate.
A.J. should just get over it and kiss Tom's 4 Super Bowl rings and move on with his life.
<< <i>Meanwhile... A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
<< <i>Meanwhile... A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls? >>
This story is not about breaking the rules one time. The Pats get caught every time but they keep doing the same thing over and over and over...That's the definition of stupidity. >>
Not sure I follow your thinking. Spygate was a league directive, not a rule. They were found guilty, punished, and paid the prnalties. Deflategare is a rules violation, and while it can be argued was a repeated offense, is one incident. I fail to see where the 'again and again and again' comes into play. When else were they found guilty of ball tampering?
I am not apologizing for anything here. As the report said, it is more probable than not something happened and all those involved are idiots for it. But let's be honest - this is nothing no other team has done and has done and has been caught (see Vikings and Chargers). Because it's the Pats and Brady makes it all the more sensational.
Question for the world - had anyone asked Welker or Dillon or any other former Patriot who either would have 'benefitted' from underinflaTed footballs or has an axe to grind with them about ball inflation policies? According to the 'experts', the fumble rate is directly attributable to ball pressure. Ok. Let's ask anyone who suited up for New England no longer associated with the team what they know. There is nothing because if there was it would have made headlines. It's a red herring.
Collecting Topps Baseball: 1966-present base sets Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
I have not read all previous posts, but wanted to add my thoughts. I have no problem with the team being penalized with the draft picks and fine as there was an attempt to violate league rules to gain an advantage. The locker room attendant taking the balls into the bathroom and then denying/lying about it and changing his story multiple times with the fact that 11 of 12 balls tested were under mandated league levels speaks volumes. I can fully understand coming down hard on the team as they have been a previous violator of the rules with Spygate.
The 4 game suspension on Brady, seems excessive. There is no definitive proof he had a role. You can say what you want about him not turning his phone over, but that is his right to protect his privacy. If there indeed was a plan to deflate these balls, whose to say it was not at the order of someone else in the organization. There are a lot of players on the field who would benefit from an under inflated ball. It would seem logical to most if such a scheme did exist, the QB would have knowledge, but there is no definitive proof. After an appeal, I believe his suspension is cut to 1 or 2 games.
Ndamukong Suh was suspended for one game for stepping on Aaron Rodgers leg, which is a direct attempt to injure someone. He had numerous prior violations and his 1 game suspension was overturned after appeal because they could not prove it was intentional, which to me was ridiculous when you take into consideration his past numerous violations. I know these are completely different infractions, but when you cannot prove Brady did anything, I don't see how his 4 game suspension stands.
Patriots rebuttal of the Wells report Wells Report
From the Pats response:
What is the consequence of rejecting Anderson’s statement that he used the Logo gauge pre-game? The Ideal Gas Law, according to the League’s consultants, establishes that the psi of the Patriots footballs at halftime would have been 11.32 to 11.52 due solely to the temperature impact on the footballs. (pg. 113). With the Logo gauge, 8 of the 11 Patriots footballs are in the Ideal Gas Law range and the average of all 11 Patriots footballs was 11.49 — fully consistent with the Ideal Gas Law’s prediction of exactly what that psi would be. THAT IS, RELYING ON MR. ANDERSON’S BEST RECOLLECTIONS, BASIC SCIENCE FULLY EXPLAINS THE DROP IN PSI OF THE PATRIOTS FOOTBALLS DURING THE FIRST HALF.
Funny how the two "luckiest" professional athletes, Tom Brady and Jimmie Johnson, have the most prolific cheating teams in their respective sport. Brady and Johnson = Lucky Lucky = Cheater
<< <i>I still don't understand why everyone is freaking out. It's only four games, sheesh. >>
It is a quarter of the NFL season. I expect it will be reduced to 2 or even 1 game by an arbitrator on appeal when all is saaid and done.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Let's get real here, there's only one applicable question that needs to be answered:
How far will he slide in fantasy drafts? >>
LOL...of course!
Ironically, as I recall, he fell pretty far last year coming off a subpar season (maybe the balls were too inflated, lol), and slid to 5th or 6th round, or maybe even later.
I bet he goes right around there again, with a 4-game suspension, or higher if it's reduced.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
WTF 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated. I am waiting for the announcement of Andrew Luck's 4 game suspension. Or at least another $5 million investigation, this time into the Colt's underinflated balls and how long it takes their ball boys to relieve themselves in the men's room.
<< <i>I have not read all previous posts, but wanted to add my thoughts. I have no problem with the team being penalized with the draft picks and fine as there was an attempt to violate league rules to gain an advantage. The locker room attendant taking the balls into the bathroom and then denying/lying about it and changing his story multiple times with the fact that 11 of 12 balls tested were under mandated league levels speaks volumes. I can fully understand coming down hard on the team as they have been a previous violator of the rules with Spygate.
The 4 game suspension on Brady, seems excessive. There is no definitive proof he had a role. You can say what you want about him not turning his phone over, but that is his right to protect his privacy. If there indeed was a plan to deflate these balls, whose to say it was not at the order of someone else in the organization. There are a lot of players on the field who would benefit from an under inflated ball. It would seem logical to most if such a scheme did exist, the QB would have knowledge, but there is no definitive proof. After an appeal, I believe his suspension is cut to 1 or 2 games.
Ndamukong Suh was suspended for one game for stepping on Aaron Rodgers leg, which is a direct attempt to injure someone. He had numerous prior violations and his 1 game suspension was overturned after appeal because they could not prove it was intentional, which to me was ridiculous when you take into consideration his past numerous violations. I know these are completely different infractions, but when you cannot prove Brady did anything, I don't see how his 4 game suspension stands. >>
I've tried to avoid this thread after initially posting, because I know I'm biased. But this is really well said and encapsulates my feelings exactly. Team penalties are completely fair. In fact, a heavier fine was probably warranted. But I think Brady's suspension for 25% of the season is excessive. The fact that common sense makes us all think we know what he knew is not the same as conclusive evidence. The fact is, they can't prove anything when it comes to Brady. It's like so many criminal trials we've seen. Logical assumptions are not the same as hard evidence, and logical assumptions are not grounds to convict. Now, if they reduce his suspension to 1 or 2 games, you won't read another word of complaint from me.
I also think the comparisons that have been made to illegally curved hockey sticks or slightly oversized goalie pads in hockey are spot on. And if Sidney Crosby or ovechkin were found to have a slightly illegal stick tomorrow, they would not be suspended 20 games. Fact.
Edited to add: a lot of the Pats' dispute of the Wells report is pretty thin on substance, however if you actually read the report and their rebuttal, the part about the 2 pressure gauges is pretty troubling. If measured on one gauge, 11 of 12 balls were illegal. If measured on the other, most of those balls were legally inflated. Referee Walt Anderson says he doesn't recall which gauge he used. So who is Wells to decide to go by the gauge that proves the point he was trying to make, when the other contradicts it?
<< <i>25% of the games in a season is considered "excessive" but not when it's 25% of boxes in a case.
Love it!!
~carry on. >>
Glad you finally understand. I believe the word you were looking for was "free market." Not sure how that pertains to the Brady situation, but thanks for playing.
You don't need to agree with me about the Brady suspension. Most of the people on this thread don't, and that's fine. But to say the analogy you just tried to make is nonsensical would be an understatement. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other; there are no parallels. You're not comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to car engines or to sea turtles. You may as well have said, "The Earth consists of 96.5% water, so I think Brady should be suspended for 96.5% of the games." I have to assume you're trolling, because nobody with the mental competency to type a complete sentence would actually say what you just said and believe it makes sense.
People who dredge up topics that have already gotten threads locked should be automatically banned. Not for 25% of anything. For life.
Edited to also add: 2 boxes out of 20 is 10%, not 25%. But again, thanks for playing.
<< <i>WTF 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated. I am waiting for the announcement of Andrew Luck's 4 game suspension. Or at least another $5 million investigation, this time into the Colt's underinflated balls and how long it takes their ball boys to relieve themselves in the men's room. >>
Have you looked at the report? "The four Colts balls tested were not inflated because they measured within the permissible range on at least one of the gauges used at halftime." Only one of the Pats balls tested above 12psi on either gauge at halftime (which still wasn't within spec), Pats PSI average between all 11 balls on both gauges: 11.3psi, Colts on the 4 tested: 12.5psi (3 averaged within spec, 1 a hair under at 12.35 - still over the highest measurement on any of the Pats balls with either gauge).
Dan, in the Wells report, none of the 11 balls were at proper inflation on either gauge (Exec Summary, Item #10). 12.3psi on one gauge was the closest of the halftime measurements. The Pats rebuttal is just a distraction for their hardcore fans. I guarantee Brady would not be going through the appeal if it were possible to increase his penalty, it's purely a PR stunt.
<< <i>WTF 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated. I am waiting for the announcement of Andrew Luck's 4 game suspension. Or at least another $5 million investigation, this time into the Colt's underinflated balls and how long it takes their ball boys to relieve themselves in the men's room. >>
Have you looked at the report? "The four Colts balls tested were not inflated because they measured within the permissible range on at least one of the gauges used at halftime." Only one of the Pats balls tested above 12psi on either gauge at halftime (which still wasn't within spec), Pats PSI average between all 11 balls on both gauges: 11.3psi, Colts on the 4 tested: 12.5psi (3 averaged within spec, 1 a hair under at 12.35 - still over the highest measurement on any of the Pats balls with either gauge).
Dan, in the Wells report, none of the 11 balls were at proper inflation on either gauge (Exec Summary, Item #10). 12.3psi on one gauge was the closest of the halftime measurements. The Pats rebuttal is just a distraction for their hardcore fans. I guarantee Brady would not be going through the appeal if it were possible to increase his penalty, it's purely a PR stunt. >>
This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law.
See? This is the way a debate is supposed to work. I make statements. Kyle stays on topic and refutes my statements with actual facts garnered from the actual source. Then I lower my head in shame and concede his points:
Well shame on me for being blinded by my fandom and not fully reading the parts about the 2 different gauges. My apologies for talking out of my hindquarters. Clearly the balls were tampered with (which I felt before). However I still maintain that there is not enough hard evidence of Brady's exact level of involvement to warrant a 4 game suspension.
And, lest I be tempted by any more troll bait, this will be my last post on this thread. Any of those of you who I respect (that's most of you) are more than welcome to continue the Brady discussion with me via PM, email or text. Peace.
<< <i>This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law. >>
Even if a 1psi variance was conceded, 13 of the 22 measurements on the Pats balls still would have been below spec. That's how far off they were. You would also expect to see the psi on the Pats balls generally increasing as the later balls were tested, which is not the case (the last two tested were the lowest average psi). I think I'll do a test this weekend, placing a ball in the freezer and checking psi before, immediately after, and after 10 minutes of warming up. Penalties would not stand up in a criminal court, but in civil where the threshold is much lower they would stand. Regardless of whether anything would stand up in court, this is the NFL justice system that the players agreed to via the NFLPA.
<< <i>This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law. >>
Even if a 1psi variance was conceded, 13 of the 22 measurements on the Pats balls still would have been below spec. That's how far off they were. You would also expect to see the psi on the Pats balls generally increasing as the later balls were tested, which is not the case (the last two tested were the lowest average psi). I think I'll do a test this weekend, placing a ball in the freezer and checking psi before, immediately after, and after 10 minutes of warming up. Penalties would not stand up in a criminal court, but in civil where the threshold is much lower they would stand. Regardless of whether anything would stand up in court, this is the NFL justice system that the players agreed to via the NFLPA. >>
That's true (about the 13 of 22 measurements), but then there was also one gauge that also consistently measured low... so 11 of those 13 could be low because of the "bad" gauge. The other thing is that they've all admitted that Brady likes the balls right at 12.5... so if the Colts balls were initially pumped closer to 13 or 13.5 psi, then they would/should always measure higher... and in the cold or with a bad gauge, the Patriots balls would/should always measure light.
I'm just a sad, depressed Bears fan so I don't really care... I just don't like to see such harsh penalties with no hard evidence... similar to Bountygate. While I agree they should have bargained for a better system in the last CBA... I'm sure they assumed that even with the powers Goodell has, his decisions would be based on facts and solid evidence (which I just don't see here). Personally, I think a fairly hefty fine for the Patriots and a total revamp of the ball handling protocol by the NFL would have been sufficient, considering the evidence.
Comments
Attorney Gloria Allred is now representing nine of the 11 balls Tom Brady allegedly squeezed.
<< <i>As far as public outcry in regard to manipulating equipment, I can't remember anything like this before. Brady hasn't helped his cause at all by what he has said to date, but gamesmanship has been around since the first game, and it is part of every sports team and every player looking for a personal or collective edge. The idea that Brady and the Pats are cheaters and everyone else isn't is pretty laughable.
Baseball teams manipulate the playing surface (such as length of grass) based on the strengths of their teams.
In hockey, many players use illegal equipment such as sticks with illegal curves or goalies with oversize pads. Pucks react differently based on whether the are cold or warm, and teams sometimes prefer bouncier pucks if the team is less skilled.
The problem is they got caught at the wrong time and at the wrong stage. All casual fans and people who've never played a sport or understood sports are acting like this is the end of the world, which isn't surprising considering how the media is spoon feeding the masses this righteous indignation.
-Nathanael >>
This is my opinion, only much, much, MUCH better written!
I'll say it again: I'll take your Brady cards!
<< <i>Attorney Gloria Allred is now representing nine of the 11 balls Tom Brady allegedly squeezed. >>
I agree more with the pine tar analogy but think the action is more akin to this: As should be the penalty
<< <i>How many games is Brady suspended for?
<< <i>wow alot of people in glass houses throwing stones at New England.
If you think that your favorite sports team has not cheated or bent the rules, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
So I assume you are looking in your own mirror?
If you think that your favorite sports team has not cheated or bent the rules, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
So I assume you are looking in your own mirror?
No I am looking in your window
In the NFL, if you win the turnover battle then you win 78% of the time. The rule change that allowed for this type of cheating started in 2007.
2000-2006 Tom Brady fumbled 2.66 Times per Year
2007-2014 Tom Brady fumbled only 1.28 Times per Year.
=48% reduction in fumbles.
In the NFL, teams historically average 1 fumble per every 36-56 plays. The Patriots were right in the middle at once every 46 plays. But then in 2007-2014, the Patriots TEAM stats improved to 1 fumble every 74 plays. A complete statistical outlier where the 2nd best fumbling team was not even close to the staggeringly low fumbling rates of the Pats. Belichick was the coach for all 14 years and has “benched” fumblers throughout his entire career. That didn’t change in 2007.
How exactly can manipulating one of the most important statistics in the game (turnovers) not be a “big deal”?
Blame it on "haters" all you want, but how did this not significantly affect the integrity of the game?
Dave
<< <i>Found these stats on the internet. I have not verified them, but if accurate it paints a very disturbing picture indeed:
In the NFL, if you win the turnover battle then you win 78% of the time. The rule change that allowed for this type of cheating started in 2007.
2000-2006 Tom Brady fumbled 2.66 Times per Year
2007-2014 Tom Brady fumbled only 1.28 Times per Year.
=48% reduction in fumbles.
In the NFL, teams historically average 1 fumble per every 36-56 plays. The Patriots were right in the middle at once every 46 plays. But then in 2007-2014, the Patriots TEAM stats improved to 1 fumble every 74 plays. A complete statistical outlier where the 2nd best fumbling team was not even close to the staggeringly low fumbling rates of the Pats. Belichick was the coach for all 14 years and has “benched” fumblers throughout his entire career. That didn’t change in 2007.
How exactly can manipulating one of the most important statistics in the game (turnovers) not be a “big deal”?
Blame it on "haters" all you want, but how did this not significantly affect the integrity of the game? >>
My buddies and I had this argument before. The stats are interesting but only relevant if the pressure in the balls is changed after they are submitted to the officials. If they submit them at the lowest level and the refs approve the balks for play then I don't blame the pats for doing anything wrong. It's only wrong if they change the pressure after they are checked by the officials.
refs did not do their job. plain and simple. in this game , in any game around the nfl. if you are going to single out brady , single out every quarterback in the league. they all want the ball the way they like it. they tell their guys get the ball as close to that as where you can. if the refs don't check or bother to do their job, the limits will be pushed. for brady, for rogers , for luck , for anyone until the refs do their job and make the balls correct and tell them to stop pushing the limits.
this wells report was made for the nfl, it was not made to prove defence for the patriots. where is it noted that 4 of the colts balls where underinflated also? luck should be suspended and the colts fined also.
and as far as the gifts, I am pretty sure it is common practice for the equipment guys to get gifts from many players. we are all collectors, where does have the game used crap come from in auction houses? from equipment managers, execs and former players who got it from friends.
did brady have a clue , of course, he said I like the ball soft and do whatever you can to get it as soft as possible until someone tells you otherwise. the league has rules and an established process. the refs don't follow the process, that is their fault. it is the refs responsibility to get the balls right
if the umps call strikes for greg maddux that are 6 inches off the plate , should he stop throwing it there? he didn't so he should be banned for life and not be allowed in the hof since he cheated by throwing the ball off the plate and having it be a strike because the umps didn't do it for everyone else and they didn't stop him.
if we want to talk integrity of the game that is fine but that is not what this is about. when a team has stickum on the sidelines in their towels and gets caught in the act and gets a 20k fine that doesn't seem like anyone was worried about integrity. that is probably more of an advantage than any pressure in the football and was the team clearly cheating.
<< <i>
Change the last one on the patriot's frame to "cheater" and you will have it correct.
<< <i>CNBC just reported that Brady NFL merchandise sales have doubled since the suspension. His jersey leads all players in sales. >>
Now he has street cred, LOL.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
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Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Where Deflategate is allowed to happen is the chain of custody after the balls are gauge checked. From reading the report, it is apparent league norms for a home team employee to be in custody of the balls, but usually there is always an official present. But in New England, there is opportunity, based on room configuration, for someone to be in one room with the ball bags and not be in sight of the officials or anyone else. Because of all the activity in the room before the AFC Champ game, the deflator did not have a chance, hence the unaccompanied trip to the men's room. You want to solve the issue - have an official be in visual contact with the balls from gauge check to field and then have the league supply ball boys - because the ball boys could just as easily sleight of hand manipulate the balls.
BTW - Aaron Rodgers is on record as saying he likes his footballs overinflated. So there is no unequivocal evidence that supports an underinflated football makes Brady superhuman. It's a gamesmanship move.
Full disclosure - I am a Pats fan. While I express doubt due to no smoking gun, I also believe if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc. Something fishy happened, and there should be some payment. Gaylord Perry or George Brett? I am more inclined to believe George Brett, although I think a better analogy is NASCAR. Find me a crew chief who isn't always trying to push the rules. ESPN Sports Science even did a bit shortly after this broke back in January that a deflated ball actually flies slower than properly inflated. So maybe any advantage created is placebo in nature.
But again - something against the rules happened. Brady does not look good in the report. But then neither does the league. If the Colts raised the issue before the game, why didn't the league mandate closer inspection of the balls? Why risk having it blow up like this when a stern "we know what you may be doing" lecture and one extra step (having someone from the league in visual contact with the balls from gauge to field) would have completely avoided Deflategate and perhaps ended the practice for good (Brady et al knowing the league is on to them).
Suspend Brady 2 games. Four games just seems way too excessive.
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Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Also there is a telling graph - with Brady's home and away splits - which seem to be exactly the same. How could this be, if deflation was a routine occurrence (at home) and makes such a big difference?
Rhetorical questions to be sure, but valid logic flags, IMHO.
Bosox1976
A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
<< <i>Meanwhile...
A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls?
Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
<< <i>
<< <i>Meanwhile...
A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls? >>
This story is not about breaking the rules one time. The Pats get caught every time but they keep doing the same thing over and over and over...That's the definition of stupidity.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
next thing you know he'll say he saw Tom Brady push a little old lady down and punch a baby.
haters are gonna hate.
A.J. should just get over it and kiss Tom's 4 Super Bowl rings and move on with his life.
<< <i>Meanwhile...
A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
(Never Mind)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Meanwhile...
A.J. Feeley, the former Dolphins and Eagles quarterback said he saw Tom Brady receiving broken-in footballs during a game in 2004, back when the same balls were used by both teams. Feeley, meanwhile, said the Dolphins were getting new balls every time. >>
If true - that is a gamesmanship move, nothing more, and I would bet my entire memorabilia collection every other team in the league did the same thing. There is nothing in the rules over whether new balls or old can be used in a game. Did someone ask Feeley if he used brand new balls if he was playing for the home team? Or did he get broken in balls? >>
This story is not about breaking the rules one time. The Pats get caught every time but they keep doing the same thing over and over and over...That's the definition of stupidity. >>
Not sure I follow your thinking. Spygate was a league directive, not a rule. They were found guilty, punished, and paid the prnalties. Deflategare is a rules violation, and while it can be argued was a repeated offense, is one incident. I fail to see where the 'again and again and again' comes into play. When else were they found guilty of ball tampering?
I am not apologizing for anything here. As the report said, it is more probable than not something happened and all those involved are idiots for it. But let's be honest - this is nothing no other team has done and has done and has been caught (see Vikings and Chargers). Because it's the Pats and Brady makes it all the more sensational.
Question for the world - had anyone asked Welker or Dillon or any other former Patriot who either would have 'benefitted' from underinflaTed footballs or has an axe to grind with them about ball inflation policies? According to the 'experts', the fumble rate is directly attributable to ball pressure. Ok. Let's ask anyone who suited up for New England no longer associated with the team what they know. There is nothing because if there was it would have made headlines. It's a red herring.
Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
The 4 game suspension on Brady, seems excessive. There is no definitive proof he had a role. You can say what you want about him not turning his phone over, but that is his right to protect his privacy. If there indeed was a plan to deflate these balls, whose to say it was not at the order of someone else in the organization. There are a lot of players on the field who would benefit from an under inflated ball. It would seem logical to most if such a scheme did exist, the QB would have knowledge, but there is no definitive proof. After an appeal, I believe his suspension is cut to 1 or 2 games.
Ndamukong Suh was suspended for one game for stepping on Aaron Rodgers leg, which is a direct attempt to injure someone. He had numerous prior violations and his 1 game suspension was overturned after appeal because they could not prove it was intentional, which to me was ridiculous when you take into consideration his past numerous violations. I know these are completely different infractions, but when you cannot prove Brady did anything, I don't see how his 4 game suspension stands.
From the Pats response:
What is the consequence of rejecting Anderson’s statement that he used the Logo gauge pre-game? The Ideal Gas Law, according to the League’s consultants, establishes that the psi of the Patriots footballs at halftime would have been 11.32 to 11.52 due solely to the temperature impact on the footballs. (pg. 113). With the Logo gauge, 8 of the 11 Patriots footballs are in the Ideal Gas Law range and the average of all 11 Patriots footballs was 11.49 — fully consistent with the Ideal Gas Law’s prediction of exactly what that psi would be. THAT IS, RELYING ON MR. ANDERSON’S BEST RECOLLECTIONS, BASIC SCIENCE FULLY EXPLAINS THE DROP IN PSI OF THE PATRIOTS FOOTBALLS DURING THE FIRST HALF.
Robb
Brady and Johnson = Lucky
Lucky = Cheater
Therefore Brady and Johnson = Cheater
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<< <i>I still don't understand why everyone is freaking out. It's only four games, sheesh. >>
It is a quarter of the NFL season. I expect it will be reduced to 2 or even 1 game by an arbitrator on appeal when all is saaid and done.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
How far will he slide in fantasy drafts?
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>Let's get real here, there's only one applicable question that needs to be answered:
How far will he slide in fantasy drafts?
LOL...of course!
Ironically, as I recall, he fell pretty far last year coming off a subpar season (maybe the balls were too inflated, lol), and slid to 5th or 6th round, or maybe even later.
I bet he goes right around there again, with a 4-game suspension, or higher if it's reduced.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I have not read all previous posts, but wanted to add my thoughts. I have no problem with the team being penalized with the draft picks and fine as there was an attempt to violate league rules to gain an advantage. The locker room attendant taking the balls into the bathroom and then denying/lying about it and changing his story multiple times with the fact that 11 of 12 balls tested were under mandated league levels speaks volumes. I can fully understand coming down hard on the team as they have been a previous violator of the rules with Spygate.
The 4 game suspension on Brady, seems excessive. There is no definitive proof he had a role. You can say what you want about him not turning his phone over, but that is his right to protect his privacy. If there indeed was a plan to deflate these balls, whose to say it was not at the order of someone else in the organization. There are a lot of players on the field who would benefit from an under inflated ball. It would seem logical to most if such a scheme did exist, the QB would have knowledge, but there is no definitive proof. After an appeal, I believe his suspension is cut to 1 or 2 games.
Ndamukong Suh was suspended for one game for stepping on Aaron Rodgers leg, which is a direct attempt to injure someone. He had numerous prior violations and his 1 game suspension was overturned after appeal because they could not prove it was intentional, which to me was ridiculous when you take into consideration his past numerous violations. I know these are completely different infractions, but when you cannot prove Brady did anything, I don't see how his 4 game suspension stands. >>
I've tried to avoid this thread after initially posting, because I know I'm biased. But this is really well said and encapsulates my feelings exactly. Team penalties are completely fair. In fact, a heavier fine was probably warranted. But I think Brady's suspension for 25% of the season is excessive. The fact that common sense makes us all think we know what he knew is not the same as conclusive evidence. The fact is, they can't prove anything when it comes to Brady. It's like so many criminal trials we've seen. Logical assumptions are not the same as hard evidence, and logical assumptions are not grounds to convict. Now, if they reduce his suspension to 1 or 2 games, you won't read another word of complaint from me.
I also think the comparisons that have been made to illegally curved hockey sticks or slightly oversized goalie pads in hockey are spot on. And if Sidney Crosby or ovechkin were found to have a slightly illegal stick tomorrow, they would not be suspended 20 games. Fact.
Edited to add: a lot of the Pats' dispute of the Wells report is pretty thin on substance, however if you actually read the report and their rebuttal, the part about the 2 pressure gauges is pretty troubling. If measured on one gauge, 11 of 12 balls were illegal. If measured on the other, most of those balls were legally inflated. Referee Walt Anderson says he doesn't recall which gauge he used. So who is Wells to decide to go by the gauge that proves the point he was trying to make, when the other contradicts it?
Love it!!
~carry on.
<< <i>25% of the games in a season is considered "excessive" but not when it's 25% of boxes in a case.
Love it!!
~carry on. >>
Glad you finally understand. I believe the word you were looking for was "free market." Not sure how that pertains to the Brady situation, but thanks for playing.
You don't need to agree with me about the Brady suspension. Most of the people on this thread don't, and that's fine. But to say the analogy you just tried to make is nonsensical would be an understatement. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other; there are no parallels. You're not comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to car engines or to sea turtles. You may as well have said, "The Earth consists of 96.5% water, so I think Brady should be suspended for 96.5% of the games." I have to assume you're trolling, because nobody with the mental competency to type a complete sentence would actually say what you just said and believe it makes sense.
People who dredge up topics that have already gotten threads locked should be automatically banned. Not for 25% of anything. For life.
Edited to also add: 2 boxes out of 20 is 10%, not 25%. But again, thanks for playing.
<< <i>WTF 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated. I am waiting for the announcement of Andrew Luck's 4 game suspension. Or at least another $5 million investigation, this time into the Colt's underinflated balls and how long it takes their ball boys to relieve themselves in the men's room. >>
Have you looked at the report? "The four Colts balls tested were not inflated because they measured within the permissible range on at least one of the gauges used at halftime." Only one of the Pats balls tested above 12psi on either gauge at halftime (which still wasn't within spec), Pats PSI average between all 11 balls on both gauges: 11.3psi, Colts on the 4 tested: 12.5psi (3 averaged within spec, 1 a hair under at 12.35 - still over the highest measurement on any of the Pats balls with either gauge).
Dan, in the Wells report, none of the 11 balls were at proper inflation on either gauge (Exec Summary, Item #10). 12.3psi on one gauge was the closest of the halftime measurements. The Pats rebuttal is just a distraction for their hardcore fans. I guarantee Brady would not be going through the appeal if it were possible to increase his penalty, it's purely a PR stunt.
<< <i>
<< <i>WTF 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated. I am waiting for the announcement of Andrew Luck's 4 game suspension. Or at least another $5 million investigation, this time into the Colt's underinflated balls and how long it takes their ball boys to relieve themselves in the men's room. >>
Have you looked at the report? "The four Colts balls tested were not inflated because they measured within the permissible range on at least one of the gauges used at halftime." Only one of the Pats balls tested above 12psi on either gauge at halftime (which still wasn't within spec), Pats PSI average between all 11 balls on both gauges: 11.3psi, Colts on the 4 tested: 12.5psi (3 averaged within spec, 1 a hair under at 12.35 - still over the highest measurement on any of the Pats balls with either gauge).
Dan, in the Wells report, none of the 11 balls were at proper inflation on either gauge (Exec Summary, Item #10). 12.3psi on one gauge was the closest of the halftime measurements. The Pats rebuttal is just a distraction for their hardcore fans. I guarantee Brady would not be going through the appeal if it were possible to increase his penalty, it's purely a PR stunt. >>
This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law.
Well shame on me for being blinded by my fandom and not fully reading the parts about the 2 different gauges. My apologies for talking out of my hindquarters. Clearly the balls were tampered with (which I felt before). However I still maintain that there is not enough hard evidence of Brady's exact level of involvement to warrant a 4 game suspension.
And, lest I be tempted by any more troll bait, this will be my last post on this thread. Any of those of you who I respect (that's most of you) are more than welcome to continue the Brady discussion with me via PM, email or text. Peace.
<< <i>This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law. >>
Even if a 1psi variance was conceded, 13 of the 22 measurements on the Pats balls still would have been below spec. That's how far off they were. You would also expect to see the psi on the Pats balls generally increasing as the later balls were tested, which is not the case (the last two tested were the lowest average psi). I think I'll do a test this weekend, placing a ball in the freezer and checking psi before, immediately after, and after 10 minutes of warming up. Penalties would not stand up in a criminal court, but in civil where the threshold is much lower they would stand. Regardless of whether anything would stand up in court, this is the NFL justice system that the players agreed to via the NFLPA.
<< <i>
<< <i>This all completely ignores the science of it, though. If they admit that scientific laws can affect the psi of a ball by approx 1 psi... then the fact that the Colts' balls were allowed to warm up for nearly the entire halftime (they only measured 4 of the Colts balls because they ran out of time during the half) completely contaminates that data. All 8 of those readings on the Colts 4 balls could have been below the allowed range if they were measured in the cold weather or immediately after half time began. I'll take science over circumstantial evidence any day... especially when the proper protocols weren't followed from the onset of the Colts' inquiry. The whole thing reeks of shoddiness... just don't see how any penalties could stand up in a court of law. >>
Even if a 1psi variance was conceded, 13 of the 22 measurements on the Pats balls still would have been below spec. That's how far off they were. You would also expect to see the psi on the Pats balls generally increasing as the later balls were tested, which is not the case (the last two tested were the lowest average psi). I think I'll do a test this weekend, placing a ball in the freezer and checking psi before, immediately after, and after 10 minutes of warming up. Penalties would not stand up in a criminal court, but in civil where the threshold is much lower they would stand. Regardless of whether anything would stand up in court, this is the NFL justice system that the players agreed to via the NFLPA. >>
That's true (about the 13 of 22 measurements), but then there was also one gauge that also consistently measured low... so 11 of those 13 could be low because of the "bad" gauge. The other thing is that they've all admitted that Brady likes the balls right at 12.5... so if the Colts balls were initially pumped closer to 13 or 13.5 psi, then they would/should always measure higher... and in the cold or with a bad gauge, the Patriots balls would/should always measure light.
I'm just a sad, depressed Bears fan so I don't really care... I just don't like to see such harsh penalties with no hard evidence... similar to Bountygate. While I agree they should have bargained for a better system in the last CBA... I'm sure they assumed that even with the powers Goodell has, his decisions would be based on facts and solid evidence (which I just don't see here). Personally, I think a fairly hefty fine for the Patriots and a total revamp of the ball handling protocol by the NFL would have been sufficient, considering the evidence.